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Old 15 Dec 2022, 22:09 (Ref:4137273)   #151
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 08:29 (Ref:4137297)   #152
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In 2022 - Max Verstappen switched to running #1 on his car as the reigning WDC.
Prior to this, Hamilton spent a few years running #44, despite being the reigning WDC at the time.

However - the question is a two-parter and is:

Which Formula One Champions never raced with a number one on their car?

And which drivers entered a Formula One Championship race with number one on their car, despite never being a [FIA] champion? (Excluding Indy500 races)
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 10:09 (Ref:4137311)   #153
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Did Mansell ever run the no. 1 when he was WDC?
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 10:14 (Ref:4137313)   #154
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Did Mansell ever run the no. 1 when he was WDC?
No, because he didn't compete the year after he became champ!

I can tell you John Watson was the last non champion to run Number 1
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 10:41 (Ref:4137323)   #155
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I can tell you John Watson was the last non champion to run Number 1
That's one - ten to go.....
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 11:10 (Ref:4137324)   #156
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No, because he didn't compete the year after he became champ!

I can tell you John Watson was the last non champion to run Number 1
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 18:24 (Ref:4137366)   #157
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rbs should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrbs should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The champions that did not race with No.1 would have been

Mansell & Nico Roberg who did not race the following season.
Hawthorn & Rindt who both lost their lives between becoming champion& the start
of the next season.
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 18:46 (Ref:4137368)   #158
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rbs should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrbs should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Graham Whitehead ran as No 1 at Silverstone in 1952. I also believe this was the only time No1 was used so can you add Fangio to my previous post please?
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 19:45 (Ref:4137372)   #159
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Graham Whitehead ran as No 1 at Silverstone in 1952. I also believe this was the only time No1 was used so can you add Fangio to my previous post please?
Graham Whitehead is another one of the non-champions to enter with #1 on the car.

But, Fangio raced with a #1 on occasion, so is not one of the champions to never use that number.
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 19:52 (Ref:4137373)   #160
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Originally Posted by rbs View Post
The champions that did not race with No.1 would have been

Mansell & Nico Roberg who did not race the following season.
Hawthorn & Rindt who both lost their lives between becoming champion& the start
of the next season.
These are the four.

For the non-champions part of the question, we have had Watson and Whitehead.

Whitehead was the first, Watson was the last.

The others were,
1954,
1958,
1958,
1959,
1959,
1967,
1967 & 1968,
1970 (twice),
1974 (all season),

Nine more names to go......
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 20:05 (Ref:4137374)   #161
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Ronnie Peterson is one of them.
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 20:27 (Ref:4137376)   #162
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Ronnie Peterson is one of them.
Yes, 1974.

8 more.....
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 20:44 (Ref:4137378)   #163
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Ronnie Peterson ran #1 for the whole of 1974 after he, or Lotus 'inherited' the #1 from the retired JYS
Lance Macklin ran #1Britain 1953
Gonzales (Jose- Froilan)
Moss
Behra
Mairesse
Pilette
Amon
Beltoise
Scarfiotti
Pedro Rodriguez
As did Collins (I think already mentioned)


The following all ran #1 at some stage prior to their WDC

Phil Hill ran #1 once prior to becoming Champion (Holland 1960)
So did Graham in 1962
Clark in SA 1962 and a couple of times in 1963
As did Jack Brabham in Germany and Portugal 1959
Fittipaldi France 1972


Farina and Ascari only ran with a #1 once.
Fangio ran with #1 a few times.... Britain in his very first GP, plus (some)other years in Britain
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Old 16 Dec 2022, 22:19 (Ref:4137384)   #164
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E.B. - Macklin was not in my original source - but checking back that is one of the drivers.

From my reference, all of the names you list are correct, with the exception of Mairesse, Pilette, and Scarfiotti. Do you have the championship races that they entered as car #1 to check against?

I also have one other entry as #1 from a driver who was never a champion.
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 03:02 (Ref:4137396)   #165
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E.B. - Macklin was not in my original source - but checking back that is one of the drivers.

From my reference, all of the names you list are correct, with the exception of Mairesse, Pilette, and Scarfiotti. Do you have the championship races that they entered as car #1 to check against?

I also have one other entry as #1 from a driver who was never a champion.
Scarfiotti I have a record for France 1967, but looking closer it seems he was entered for the works Ferrari team in #1 but "took part in another race". Amon was the only Ferrari to start the race, driving #2.

Reading more into it, Denis Jenkinson in Motorsport Mag at the time wrote Ludovico chose to not run because seeing the terrible (career ending) accident of Ferrari team mate Mike Parkes at the preceding Spa race had disturbed him.

Andre Pilette was entered and I understood practiced for Ecurie Scirocco Belge at Monaco 1964 but was told he was too slow.

As for Willy Mairesse I Have him entered as #1 in a works Ferrari for the 1962 US GP but he was a DNA. IIRC that was when Enzo, after a poor year for Ferrari, 'cracked it' and the 3 cars Ferrari entered (Mairesse, Bandini and Baghetti in #1,2,3 respectively) were all DNA's.

So they were all officially entered as #1, but for varying reasons mentioned were MIA come race day.
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 07:30 (Ref:4137401)   #166
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Scarfiotti I have a record for France 1967, but looking closer it seems he was entered for the works Ferrari team in #1 but "took part in another race". Amon was the only Ferrari to start the race, driving #2.

Andre Pilette was entered and I understood practiced for Ecurie Scirocco Belge at Monaco 1964 but was told he was too slow.

As for Willy Mairesse I Have him entered as #1 in a works Ferrari for the 1962 US GP but he was a DNA. IIRC that was when Enzo, after a poor year for Ferrari, 'cracked it' and the 3 cars Ferrari entered (Mairesse, Bandini and Baghetti in #1,2,3 respectively) were all DNA's.

So they were all officially entered as #1, but for varying reasons mentioned were MIA come race day.

Thanks -

It appears my source might have been incomplete. Checking back, they seem to have considered 'Withdrawn' as not meeting the criteria of 'entered a Formula One Championship race'.

Depending on interpretation, some sources for the 1962 US GP report that 'Scuderia Ferrari were entered for the race as #1, 2 and 3, but nominated neither cars nor drivers.' which I think is why Mairesse is also not on their list.


But - with all that, there is still one more driver that entered a championship race with number one on their car, that has not been mentioned yet.

To summarise where we are:
Which Formula One Champions never raced with a number one on their car?

Mike Hawthorn,
Jochen Rindt,
Nigel Mansell,
Nico Rosberg.

And which drivers entered a Formula One Championship race with number one on their car, despite never being a champion?

Graham Whitehead – 1952 British Grand Prix
Lance Macklin ran - 1953 British Grand Prix
José Froilán González - 1954 German Grand Prix
Stirling Moss - 1958 Dutch Grand Prix
Peter Collins – 1958 British Grand Prix
Jean Behra - 1959 Dutch Grand Prix
Willy Mairesse - 1962 US Grand Prix (did not attend)
Andre Pilette - 1964 Monaco Grand Prix (withdrawn)
Chris Amon - 1967 Belgian Grand Prix
Jean-Pierre Beltoise - 1967 Monaco Grand Prix (DNQ) and 1968 Monaco Grand Prix
Ludovico Scarfiotti - 1967 French Grand Prix (withdrawn)
Pedro Rodr?*guez - 1970 Belgian Grand Prix and 1970 Dutch Grand Pri
Ronnie Peterson - 1974 Season Long
John Watson – 1985 European Grand Prix




Plus - one more driver who has not been mentioned......
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 09:12 (Ref:4137406)   #167
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Thanks -

....which drivers entered a Formula One Championship race with number one on their car, despite never being a champion?

Graham Whitehead – 1952 British Grand Prix
Lance Macklin ran - 1953 British Grand Prix
José Froilán González - 1954 German Grand Prix
Stirling Moss - 1958 Dutch Grand Prix
Peter Collins – 1958 British Grand Prix
Jean Behra - 1959 Dutch Grand Prix
Willy Mairesse - 1962 US Grand Prix (did not attend)
Andre Pilette - 1964 Monaco Grand Prix (withdrawn)
Chris Amon - 1967 Belgian Grand Prix
Jean-Pierre Beltoise - 1967 Monaco Grand Prix (DNQ) and 1968 Monaco Grand Prix
Ludovico Scarfiotti - 1967 French Grand Prix (withdrawn)
Pedro Rodr?*guez - 1970 Belgian Grand Prix and 1970 Dutch Grand Pri
Ronnie Peterson - 1974 Season Long
John Watson – 1985 European Grand Prix

Plus - one more driver who has not been mentioned......
Im not sure if this meets the criteria of the question, but at the 1964 USGP Jim Clark started the race in Lotus #1. Mike Spence in Lotus #2. Clark suffered a problem during the race. Chapman pitted Clark and Spence with Clark taking over Spence's #2 and rejoining.

After repairs Spence rejoined the race running Clark's #1 car. Clark finished the race 7th in the #2. (Actually he didn't quite get to the end but was classified 7th.)

Spence as mentioned drove the #1 car but it only lasted for another few laps before retiring.

None the less Mike Spence did drive the #1 at the USGP in the race and was not a WDC. Does that count?

**Clutches straws!
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 09:17 (Ref:4137407)   #168
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Thanks -

It appears my source might have been incomplete. Checking back, they seem to have considered 'Withdrawn' as not meeting the criteria of 'entered a Formula One Championship race'.

Depending on interpretation, some sources for the 1962 US GP report that 'Scuderia Ferrari were entered for the race as #1, 2 and 3, but nominated neither cars nor drivers.' which I think is why Mairesse is also not on their list.


But - with all that, there is still one more driver that entered a championship race with number one on their car, that has not been mentioned yet.

To summarise where we are:
Which Formula One Champions never raced with a number one on their car?

Mike Hawthorn,
Jochen Rindt,
Nigel Mansell,
Nico Rosberg.

And which drivers entered a Formula One Championship race with number one on their car, despite never being a champion?

Graham Whitehead – 1952 British Grand Prix
Lance Macklin ran - 1953 British Grand Prix
José Froilán González - 1954 German Grand Prix
Stirling Moss - 1958 Dutch Grand Prix
Peter Collins – 1958 British Grand Prix
Jean Behra - 1959 Dutch Grand Prix
Willy Mairesse - 1962 US Grand Prix (did not attend)
Andre Pilette - 1964 Monaco Grand Prix (withdrawn)
Chris Amon - 1967 Belgian Grand Prix
Jean-Pierre Beltoise - 1967 Monaco Grand Prix (DNQ) and 1968 Monaco Grand Prix
Ludovico Scarfiotti - 1967 French Grand Prix (withdrawn)
Pedro Rodr?*guez - 1970 Belgian Grand Prix and 1970 Dutch Grand Pri
Ronnie Peterson - 1974 Season Long
John Watson – 1985 European Grand Prix




Plus - one more driver who has not been mentioned......
Im not sure if this meets the criteria of the question, but at the 1964 USGP Jim Clark started the race in Lotus #1. Mike Spence in Lotus #2. Clark suffered a problem during the race. Chapman pitted Clark and Spence with Clark taking over Spence's #2 and rejoining.

After repairs Spence rejoined the race running Clark's #1 car. Clark finished the race 7th in the #2. (Actually he didn't quite get to the end but was classified 7th.)

Spence as mentioned drove the #1 car but it only lasted for another few laps before retiring.

None the less Mike Spence did drive the #1 at the USGP in the race and was not a WDC. Does that count?

Mike is shown in the results as driving the #1

**Clutches straws!

Likewise at the 1953 German GP Ascari started in the #1 Ferrari. After losing a wheel and subsequently suffering handling problems Ferrari swapped cars with Ascari taking over the #4 of Villoresi. Villoresi took over the #1 and finished the race in the #1 car

Last edited by E.B; 17 Dec 2022 at 09:36.
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 09:28 (Ref:4137409)   #169
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Ok what connects the following
Jack Brabham
Jo Bonnier
Graham Hill
Bruce McLaren
Mario Andretti
Bruno Giacomelli
Riccardo Patrese
Nelson Piquet
Johnny Herbert
Jean Alesi
Michael Schumacher
Rubens Barrichello
Jarno Trulli
Pedro de la Rosa
Fernando Alonso
Kimi Raikkonen
Robert Kubica
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel
Romain Grosjean
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 09:30 (Ref:4137411)   #170
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Spence as mentioned drove the #1 car but it only lasted for another few laps before retiring.

None the less Mike Spence did drive the #1 at the USGP in the race and was not a WDC. Does that count?

Mike is shown in the results as driving the #1

**Clutches straws!
Not the entry on the list I have - but possibly is another one to add.

Clue - you are at the right event, but the wrong year for the final name on the list.
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 09:56 (Ref:4137415)   #171
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Not the entry on the list I have - but possibly is another one to add.
No neither Spence nor Villoresi were entered in the #1 cars, but due to mid race car swaps with Clark and Ascari resulting in their both driving the #1. ie They didnt enter or start in the #1 but they did end their races in them.

HOWEVER....Roger Ward in the Kurtis Kraft Offenhauser at the Sebring 1959 US GP ran as #1 is more likely the one you are looking for.

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Old 17 Dec 2022, 11:00 (Ref:4137418)   #172
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Ok what connects the following
Jack Brabham
Jo Bonnier
Graham Hill
Bruce McLaren
Mario Andretti
Bruno Giacomelli
Riccardo Patrese
Nelson Piquet
Johnny Herbert
Jean Alesi
Michael Schumacher
Rubens Barrichello
Jarno Trulli
Pedro de la Rosa
Fernando Alonso
Kimi Raikkonen
Robert Kubica
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel
Romain Grosjean
Is it that there were over ten years between their first and last Grand Prix, but they missed at least one race during that period?
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 12:21 (Ref:4137422)   #173
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Originally Posted by E.B View Post
No neither Spence nor Villoresi were entered in the #1 cars, but due to mid race car swaps with Clark and Ascari resulting in their both driving the #1. ie They didnt enter or start in the #1 but they did end their races in them.

HOWEVER....Roger Ward in the Kurtis Kraft Offenhauser at the Sebring 1959 US GP ran as #1 is more likely the one you are looking for.
Yes, that's the last name I have.

You get to ask the next question (I think).
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 12:27 (Ref:4137423)   #174
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Yes, that's the last name I have.

You get to ask the next question (I think).
There seems to be a question already running so I will let it go for now. I have one up my sleeve though.

Good question crm.
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 12:39 (Ref:4137424)   #175
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Originally Posted by BTCC frog View Post
Is it that there were over ten years between their first and last Grand Prix, but they missed at least one race during that period?

No, but you are in the right area.
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