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Old 25 Jul 2002, 12:13 (Ref:342360)   #1
Hugh Jarce
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Arrows vs Ferrari Penalty - Help me understand the difference

I know some of you guys are far more familiar and up to date with the intricacies of F1 rules (I'm getting there) but I was reading the news around the various sites and saw that the FIA may well punish Arrows with a 'RACE BAN' if they fail to compete properly in Germany.

OK - seems reasonable. I know that no one wants to kick a team when they are down but you can't have the fiasco of drivers simply giving up and getting changed while others are racing!

BUT ... how come Arrows could face a RACE BAN from the FIA for not trying, and in so doing bringing the sport into disrepute, and the FIA tell us that Ferrari, who were judged to have done the same thing, could only be FINED?

I'm sure I must be missing something - so help me see what and this thread can close.

Or, is this mega-hypocisy at work?
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 12:38 (Ref:342381)   #2
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Actually Ferrari were judged for the Podium antics more than team-orders thing and indeed Arrows did NOT try. Arrows' case was clear a non-combat situation whereas Ferrari beat all of others teams, almost lapping the entire field. It's not hypocrisy. Actually I expect a fine to be imposed to Arrows and that would hurt more... Probably that situation fits them most, they have 3 more weeks...
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:05 (Ref:342412)   #3
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Guess it all hinges on Morganm Grenfell now?
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:19 (Ref:342424)   #4
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I don't think there is anything in the rules that say Arrows have to try!! I am sure it is legal to drive slowly. That's why the 107% rule was brought in - I don't see what the FIA cna do about it?!

If a Minardi won in Germany, would that be bringing the sport into disrepute? Just the FIA trying to act big, and close down Arrows.

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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:24 (Ref:342429)   #5
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As someone pointed out in another thread, the Cosworths they had for Magny Cours must be good for the German GP weekend, thus saving them some more cash in the short term.
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:29 (Ref:342432)   #6
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Actually Ferrari were judged for the Podium antics more than team-orders thing
Red - you are absolutely right, but most people made a stink about the RB 'not trying' bit and how bad it looked, and the FIA said as bad as it was, that they had no control over this and team orders.

So, if Ferrari were fined for the podium antics only - what case do Arrows have to answer.

Arrows team orders were don't qualify - we can't afford it. They brought F1 into disrepute just like Ferrari and yet are being threatened with a ban or fine for that offence - when it seems to me Ferrari 'got off' that charge 'scot-free'.

I still don't see it - may be I'm just being think!
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:35 (Ref:342437)   #7
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It's probably Eccleslug trying to get them to make a 'show' of it in Germany.
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:36 (Ref:342438)   #8
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Originally posted by Hugh Jarce
So, if Ferrari were fined for the podium antics only - what case do Arrows have to answer.
Well, actually the rule says that each team must be able to bring two operational cars at every Event. 2 not so fast laps plus 4 in/out laps may not look as competing in the French GP. The penalty for such infringement is a hefty fine, not a race ban. However IF something has to be done, I believe that FIA would not want to hit Arrows even more...

PS: Rubens "did not try" in front of his teammate. Arrows "did not try" against 10 other teams, that's another difference.

Last edited by Red; 25 Jul 2002 at 13:39.
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:52 (Ref:342451)   #9
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I think the FIA should try and show some compassion here. It's rather obvious that Arrows are in a lot of difficulty at the moment, and at least they went to bother of at least showing up and put the car on the track.

So they didn't qualify??? Big deal, Yoong doesn't qualify for half the grand prix's anyway!!!
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:53 (Ref:342453)   #10
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They both did not try...They both did not race. What difference does it make as to whether it was for the win or just to qualify? None that I can see...

lol...as we all know it comes down to money, which is why Ferrari will NEVER get a race ban. Ferrari is by far the most popular F1 team, and a GP without Ferrari would mean lost ticket sales, merchandise sales and F1 Digital Sales. An Arrows race ban would mean...20 cars trying to qualify.

That's the reality of it I'm afraid.
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 13:56 (Ref:342455)   #11
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In addition, if Arrows do not show up they forfeit a huge amount of money and possibly their eligability for the rest of the season. That's why they don't run during Friday free practice and only do three laps to 'qualify'
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 14:06 (Ref:342460)   #12
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But if Arrows go, will that be the end of F1 as we know it. That leaves just 20 cars, and if Minardi also dissapear sometime soon when cash runs out, that leaves just 16. There are also threats of engine mnaufactuer breakaways etc etc..... makes you wonder!
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 14:21 (Ref:342475)   #13
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"pooooooooooof" F1 just went up in a puff of smoke.
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 14:35 (Ref:342492)   #14
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Perhaps a suspended fine could be imposed. £1 now and £500,000 when they score their first point! - Seriously!!!

I ain't an Arrows fan - but I think they could do with some support right now and not threats. The FIA seems like the old school bully - happy to pick on the vulnerable but wants to stay chums with the 'heavy hitters'.

And, come to that, what must the drivers felt at Magny-Cours.

'OK Guys I want you to look like you're really pushing, grit your teeth for the press, but then slow up and miss the 107% - but try to look like you're trying or you may not get paid next week.'



No wonder they changed and hid.
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Old 25 Jul 2002, 14:38 (Ref:342495)   #15
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I like that! No suspended fine, but one symbolic pound would do the trick.
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