[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[helgi]

For sure we will. Thank Heavens, there's plenty of racing outside ACO standardised circus.

[chernaudi]

I do hope that it's better than what LMP1 became and that it takes off more than DPI has.

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Surely after we get out of this lock down they should be welcoming all and sundry.

THAT would be a logical, common sense thought process.

But as we know by now, the ACO has never been known to use either in their thought process!

I think we can see their mindset being, ''OK boys, good times are here again! All the OEM's will flock to us with their bags of money, so we don't need privateers. We never have wanted them, so why change this because of a virus?''

Perhaps they may be in for a big surprise.

[carbsmith]

Those dirty dogs at the ACO, writing IMSA's series specific rules.

[S griffin]

Fingers crossed these new rules help keep the IMSA series afloat. Certainly opens up the possibility of more joining and yes nice to have something different than the WEC

[TF110]

Not really enthused by this but it's better than nothing. Heavy cars, same 4 lmp2 chassis, standard hybrids, extra bop etc. are the minuses, the pluses are more power, wider cars, hopefully better looking cars and more variety if hypercar is let in.

[canaglia]

Have the idea that lmdh specs are great, but are 4 years late....
it had to be done in mid-late 2016 when audi decided to withdraw from LM program and fully introduced from 2018 season.
We are going to deal with one of worst economic recession during next years, and a sportscar program don't think is one of manufacturers top priorities

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Have the idea that lmdh specs are great, but are 4 years late....
it had to be done in mid-late 2016 when audi decided to withdraw from LM program and fully introduced from 2018 season.
We are going to deal with one of worst economic recession during next years, and a sportscar program don't think is one of manufacturers top priorities

You are correct about the financial recession coming.

But that isn't important to an ostrich who wants to keep its head buried in the sands and dream of riches coming to them, is it?

Post this virus BS, IS NOT the time to be introducing a new class to racing, which is going to be very expensive! It SHOULD be a time of consolidation of what already exists, an opening up of the regulations, to encourage teams to go racing, if and when they can afford to.

The ACO just have never got it, never. So now, should we be surprised that they still don't get it?

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not really enthused by this but it's better than nothing. Heavy cars, same 4 lmp2 chassis, standard hybrids, extra bop etc. are the minuses, the pluses are more power, wider cars, hopefully better looking cars and more variety if hypercar is let in.

This is a good wording.

"That’s a sharp signal that IMSA’s preferred option is to stick with their current business plan, manufacturers are effectively partnered with the series, a bond secured in no small part with financial contributions of significant sums.

Whilst there is potential for Toyota, and perhaps in the future Peugeot to ‘pony up’ a relevant contribution, there’s rather less likelihood one would think of that being an achievable aim for ByKolles or Glickenhaus.''

That IMSA ''Sanctioning fee'', is likely to increase even higher as well! So it would seem likely that only Toyota will end up racing its Hypercar, against itself. Maybe that is what they want?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by truebeliever

This is a good wording.

"That’s a sharp signal that IMSA’s preferred option is to stick with their current business plan, manufacturers are effectively partnered with the series, a bond secured in no small part with financial contributions of significant sums.

Whilst there is potential for Toyota, and perhaps in the future Peugeot to ‘pony up’ a relevant contribution, there’s rather less likelihood one would think of that being an achievable aim for ByKolles or Glickenhaus.''

That IMSA ''Sanctioning fee'', is likely to increase even higher as well! So it would seem likely that only Toyota will end up racing its Hypercar, against itself. Maybe that is what they want?

I don't think any manufacturer wants to race itself. Beating big names like Peugeot and Audi and Porsche etc is what they want to tout. I hope lots show up so that competition is prevalent.

[Mike E]

Spec gearbox for LMDh?

'One of the changes in the powertrain, however, is the expected utilization of a single-supply gearbox for all LMDh cars.'

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...gible-in-lmdh/

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Spec gearbox for LMDh?

'One of the changes in the powertrain, however, is the expected utilization of a single-supply gearbox for all LMDh cars.'

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...gible-in-lmdh/

not a big new actually since toyota aside, all private lmp1, dpi and lmp2 use xtrac gearbox

[Félix]

The Ligier uses Hewland. I know it's "progress", but Xtrac is becoming a Dallara equivalent; Hewland had DTM and F2, Ricardo works with manufacturers and Sadev has what part of the touring car/rally market Xtrac doesn't control...

The funny part in all of this, to me, is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current P2 cars. Ok the 3 losers would have to spend money to upgrade so they can challenge Oreca - much less than they'll spend for brand new projects (that are at risk of once again failing to match Oreca). The Oreca is faster than any of the mooted new cars, there are almost 50 of them around, it's reliable... and they'll phase it out! OK it's not perfect, it is a bit tight for taller drivers.

Waste will be less and less fashionable in the future; but the ACO will probably get the memo in 2030 - late as usual.

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by Félix

The Ligier uses Hewland. I know it's "progress", but Xtrac is becoming a Dallara equivalent; Hewland had DTM and F2, Ricardo works with manufacturers and Sadev has what part of the touring car/rally market Xtrac doesn't control...

The funny part in all of this, to me, is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current P2 cars. Ok the 3 losers would have to spend money to upgrade so they can challenge Oreca - much less than they'll spend for brand new projects (that are at risk of once again failing to match Oreca). The Oreca is faster than any of the mooted new cars, there are almost 50 of them around, it's reliable... and they'll phase it out! OK it's not perfect, it is a bit tight for taller drivers.

Waste will be less and less fashionable in the future; but the ACO will probably get the memo in 2030 - late as usual.

I am not sure what you are getting at here with this sentence?

The 3 losers as you put it, are NOT allowed to do any upgrades to their P2 designs! So Oreca can continue to have the dice loaded in their favor.

In which case, why not simply call LMP2, ''Formula Oreca'' and make P2 a one make Formula? OH, hang on, didn't we have that before with Formula Le Mans?

[Adam43]

I think the suggestion is to just let LMP2 go for it rather than invent a new top class and the other 3 would have to spend to improve, but less than a new project.

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I think the suggestion is to just let LMP2 go for it rather than invent a new top class and the other 3 would have to spend to improve, but less than a new project.

Someone suggested a new TOP Class, of more or less complying to a set of simplistic basic rules, engine size, weight, etc, rather than pages and pages of idiotic ACO regulation.

This way, a current P2 Team, could upgrade itself, if the team wanted, at sensible investment, or stay in P2.

It would seem that now both the ACO + IMSA are converging per se, they are doing so in a common ''out to lunch attitude'', that there IS NOT going to be any economic depression in a post virus world, and OEM money will be in plentiful supply coming their way!

Amazing!

[Dandontknow1]

I think the ACO really have missed an opportunity here, especially in the likely short-medium term economic future. The LMDh class should be open to anyone who wants to have a go and not just manufacturers as I like to think that there might be some plucky privateers who'd develop their own cars using this formula as the basis. I've always had a problem with the way the ACO seems to be instructing privateers to stay in LMP2!!

Oh, and get rid of the awful shark fins!

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by Dandontknow1

I think the ACO really have missed an opportunity here, especially in the likely short-medium term economic future. The LMDh class should be open to anyone who wants to have a go and not just manufacturers as I like to think that there might be some plucky privateers who'd develop their own cars using this formula as the basis. I've always had a problem with the way the ACO seems to be instructing privateers to stay in LMP2!!

I'd think the word, FORCING, is more appropriate here. Privateer teams do not bring the ACO tons of money, for their pockets. But that's no problem, ALL the OEM's will want to show the world how fiscally and socially responsible they are being, giving millions to the ACO/IMSA, and doing nothing about the millions of worldwide employees who were/are out of work and income because of this current lunacy!

Sounds like a good business model to me!

Oh, and get rid of the awful shark fins!

I don't mind them and if the aero studies are correct at the time they were mandated, it appears they do work in preventing the current cars getting airborne.

I do think what is required by ALL governing bodies, is an enormous input to their mindsets, of reality and awareness of the world we are currently living in. Reality and not fantasy, as they do their planning in their ivory towers, can lead to a long term, sustainable future. Or a greedy short trip into extinction. It would seem clear which option is being focused on.

[TF110]

Looks like the FIA has ratified the hypercar class rules to meet the imsa rules. That is 1030kg and 500kw along with the aero levels https://www.fia.com/news/fia-amend-l...ar-regulations

[Mike E]

It's good that this seems to be resolved now but what an embarrassing mess it has been to reach this point.
Basically, you can design your own car or you can buy a chassis off the shelf and add your own running gear and bodywork. Was that so hard?

[wolfhound]

They also seem like rules that would allow manufacturers to sell their motors to private teams at an affordable price or the private teams might only buy the power units.

I suspect we could see a situation where manufacturer engines might be required to be competitive.

[Mike E]

Maybe. The big change is the increase in minimum weight for non-hybrids. An extra 200kg, plus up to 50kg of BoP ballast, is a lot to shift. So while the Gibson and AER already achieve the 670bhp maximum permitted under the new rules, will they produce enough torque?

Perhaps Pipo/Glickenhaus will sell their engine. Or perhaps the higher weight limit allows big old lumps like a Judd V10 to become viable again (we can dream).

That is if privateers are actually allowed to build up cars to LMDh rules without manufacturer involvement...

[hondafan37]

This is what an Alpine A480 LMDh could give…





https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/vo...ine-a480-lmdh/

[CTD]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

This is what an Alpine A480 LMDh could give…





https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/vo...ine-a480-lmdh/

Designers rendition .
If they truly go for that and chooses to do a civilian version LMDh would not make sense. LMh would be a much better option, but of course this is a designer choice, so might not have looked into the rulesets as much as some of the people in this forum.

[canaglia]

honestly it's unlikely to expect anything that different from current dpi bodyshape style for lmdh