Ferrari 458 Italia (merged)

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I agree with you L.P. However, there is the possibility that the car does get shipped to Italy and has all sorts of parts stuck to it and it becomes a "Ferrari 430 GT2" *wink*458 mule*wink*. A boy can dream, can't he?

Chris

Oh, I think if they do run the 430 it will probably go back to Michelotto for upgrades. But how substantial, with a new car around the corner?



L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by arakis

i agree, i think it was also a misunderstanidin, thinking the new rules would be the same, with fia and aco,

but they could still rehomologate the car to the 14'' tires 100kg more and 9% bigger restrictors, that would mean that the chassis and bodywork would have to be rewoked to fit the larger tires, and the engine would probably have to be remaped

Yes they can re-homologate, but, it is not free. It also seems a lot of work to the 430, in the short period until the 458 is ready. Seems rather a, robbing Peter to pay Paul (wasted resources) scenario to me.



L.P.

[arakis]

yeah i guess, but i'd still like to see ferrari and porsche on the same tires, restrictors and weights,

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Yes they can re-homologate, but, it is not free. It also seems a lot of work to the 430, in the short period until the 458 is ready. Seems rather a, robbing Peter to pay Paul (wasted resources) scenario to me.

But it seems to me like a cheap way to test, in race conditions, how parts they could employ on the 458 work at the higher weight and wider tires. You can put loads on miles around Fiorano or Mugello but wouldn't you rather test some of those parts at Sebring and roll out a much stronger 458?

[Jonerz]

Why do you want a car with a 3.8 litre (or four litre) flat six need to have the same weight and restrictors as a car with a 4.3 litre V8, arakis?

Chris

[arakis]

both ferrari and porshce run on 4l, ferrari stroked down their 4.3 to 4, porsche bored out their 3.8l to 4l well actiualy their 3.2l original engine dates back to 1996 gt1.

Why, because than we will have 2 cars, with the same engine size, restrictor size, weight, and tire size.

because, no matter how much physics FIA and ACO know, there is no way in hell they can have different sized engines weighs, restrictors and tires and say they made fair rules, IMHO best way to know witch car is better, run them in the same format like the 360 and 996. (reason i started watching sports cars)(well actually it was because of NFS4, but that is another storie)

***as for the flat-6 or boxer vs v8, its porsches choise to run a flat six.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But it seems to me like a cheap way to test, in race conditions, how parts they could employ on the 458 work at the higher weight and wider tires. You can put loads on miles around Fiorano or Mugello but wouldn't you rather test some of those parts at Sebring and roll out a much stronger 458?

I'd rather roll out the 458 go through the shake down process and develop race pace in it. In my mind it is a diminishing returns exercise, you take away from the 430 because you are using it as a mule, also the 458 loses out on true development time. It all comes down to how far along they are on the 458.




L.P.

[broadrun96]

My assumption was they haven't even started on the GT car yet. Since they have an idea of how the 430 runs at the current weight and restrictor, they can use a chassis or two to test how the car improves to know target to build the the 458 to. It can't hurt the 430 too much since don't they have to tweak the bodywork to modify it to meet the rules clarification anyway? Know they had the patch but did Ferrari build a new body panel to meet the rule?

[arakis]

I think they should run the F430 as a test for the 458, and simply to be faster next year.

the +8.9% restrictors, and wider tires make a huge difference at le mans, and it would be nice to take the qualifying record + a hat trick at le mans.
because of the huge straight the hp maters more then weight

In my opinion they should at least make a LM specal under those rules

Ferrari F430LM

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Why do you want a car with a 3.8 litre (or four litre) flat six need to have the same weight and restrictors as a car with a 4.3 litre V8, arakis?

Chris

The answer would be too simple....


Eh, who am I to judge? At least he's behaving now.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by arakis

both ferrari and porshce run on 4l, ferrari stroked down their 4.3 to 4, porsche bored out their 3.8l to 4l well actiualy their 3.2l original engine dates back to 1996 gt1.

Why, because than we will have 2 cars, with the same engine size, restrictor size, weight, and tire size.

because, no matter how much physics FIA and ACO know, there is no way in hell they can have different sized engines weighs, restrictors and tires and say they made fair rules, IMHO best way to know witch car is better, run them in the same format like the 360 and 996. (reason i started watching sports cars)(well actually it was because of NFS4, but that is another storie)

***as for the flat-6 or boxer vs v8, its porsches choise to run a flat six.

This assumes that displacement directly correlates to volume, weight, power, and efficiency of a given engine... which it doesn't.

[Splatz the Cow]

Originally Posted by gucom

if I may give my humble opinion in this off-topic matter...

1. splatz you were pretty rude, the mistake was understandable, plus the F1 GT was only a homologation special for the '97 GTR, when some1 says "the McLaren roadcar" it's pretty obvious they mean the standard F1.

2. for some1 who behaves so rudely towards some1 for not "taking the effort to look up the facts" it would be nice if you looked up your facts and saw that, in fact, the F1 GTR 1997 is 5mm longer than the F1 GT (McLaren website).

3. let's all be a bit humble and understanding towards each other the aim of this forum, as I understand it, is to discuss racing cars, not to put each other down [/hippy mode]

I am being treated as if this were my opinion, when earlier on I provided a link to the data I am talking about. It is the same on the McLaren Cars website, as that provided in the book, Driving Ambition.

I am aware of that fact the wheelbase was a few mm longer in the 1997 GTR due to the fact the engine and gearbox were lowered compared to the F1 GT, and 1996 GTR.

The issue was clearly not about that, but that McLaren lengthened the race car from the F1 road car. This is not the case, as the F1 GTR of 1995 was the F1 road car with go fast bits on it, and was 90% the same car. McLaren raced for one season with this car.

McLaren evolved the car for 1996 - which was 50% the original bits.

The 1997 GTR was only 10% the same as the road car, and 90% new obviously.

The 1997 GTR was almost entirely a seperate new car, compared to the F1 road car original. So comparing the 1997 GTR to the original F1 road car does not make sense, its apples and bananas.

Quite simply, when McLaren went racing, they developed the F1 GTR for the 1995 season, directly from the F1 roadcar, and they were the same size.

[Splatz the Cow]

Please continue with the interesting discussion about the Ferrari, sorry you've been interrupted.

[Danny_GT2]

I might search the web for 458 GT2 pics!

[Danny_GT2]

http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/news...n_458GT2-L.jpg

Did this Yusuf Pasta chap look @ the Maser MC12 much??

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by Danny_GT2

I might search the web for 458 GT2 pics!

I doubt there'll be any for a while.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Danny_GT2

http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/news...n_458GT2-L.jpg

Did this Yusuf Pasta chap look @ the Maser MC12 much??

That may just be a photoshop but that looks great!

Good luck with your photo hunt Danny_GT2 as MJ_N_09 said you probably wont see any for at least six months and that's being optimistic.

[tlongman]

Wow your right that really does look awesome! I hope the final version turns out like that.

[MJ_N_09]

My prediction...

There's no way that Vitaphone will not run that car. Look at it! It's giving off an MC12 vibe, regardless of the final version.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Anthony@murphythebear.com/blog

I have celebrated Risi since the 360 and I knew they would come back with a updated cars ahead of 2011. It usually takes a year from announcement to fruition that you see another F-series racer from Michelotto and what better team to showcase your new race car than Risi, 2 time defending Le Mans GT2 winners that could easily be 3 time defending. The “stop gap” measure will be as I have heard it -

Direct Injection for the 4.0L engine.

Modified Body Work to house larger GT1 Tires and a new Nose

I would bet on the bodywork/GT1 tires being the bulk of the improvements.

comment by anthony on murphy the bear website

[Splatz the Cow]

Not really seeing the MC12 in there myself, but Vitaphone do like to pick the best on offer, so they may well pick up these.

[MJ_N_09]

And win yet another championship.

[Dead-Eye]

Why would Vitaphone go to GT2? The new GT1 championship seems like it's made for them.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Why would Vitaphone go to GT2? The new GT1 championship seems like it's made for them.

And what would they run in GT1? slightly OT.

[MJ_N_09]

Well now that you mention it, maybe Reiter's Lambos, since Hans Reiter is German and the Murcielago LP670SV(?) is Italian like the MC12.