[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by joeb

That is pretty hideous, are the fins going to be that tall? Reminds me of F1.....

Regs say the top edge must be "between 920mm and 1030mm above the reference plane" - I used 920mm.

[Spyderman]

[I]"The ACO explicitly states that should a car shown performance above any of the others they will take immediate steps to reduce that car's performance by the next event."[/I]

This is just my opinion, but I hate this!

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

[I]"The ACO explicitly states that should a car shown performance above any of the others they will take immediate steps to reduce that car's performance by the next event."[/I]

This is just my opinion, but I hate this!

Is that not just to do with the grandfathering process, ie equalizing the performance of new-rules cars with grandfathered cars?

If not, then I agree, to performance balance every car seems strongly against the spirit of this type of racing.

[gwyllion]

Clearly this is about the performance balancing between LMP1 2010 and LMP1 2011.

[Spyderman]

Clearly not so "clearly", but if that is what is meant then that is a different story.

[gwyllion]

That whole paragraph is about grandfathering of LMP1 2010 and performance balancing it with the new LMP1 2011 rules.

The goal is that LMP1 2011 cars have a slight performance advantage. The idea is that this is an incentive to build new cars. They did a similiar thing with the transition from LMP900 to LMP1. Remember that the Pescarolo C60 hybrid was faster than Audi R8 in 2005, but it lost because of reliability issues.

[Spyderman]

Whilst I agree the phrase is inserted in the same paragraph, it does not clearly state that "The ACO reserves the right to alter 2010 LMP1 performance.....", but rather ambivalently states " The ACO reserves the right to alter LMP1 performance relative to its competitors"

[höller]

Obviously Audi is pondering about a top-closed coupe for LM 2011:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84533

Dr. Ulrich is complaining about the pitstop-rule being unequal, but he contradicts imo, as changing it now the open-top LMPs would have an advantage (aren´t they obliged to use air condition additionally from 2011 on?) My opinion is still the same: In terms of safety, which is a main task of ACO, a closed coupe is the better solution. I would even go further and oblige also LMP2 to the use of top-closed only. An accident like Massa on the Hunaudieres would be a horror.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by höller

aren´t they obliged to use air condition additionally from 2011 on?

No they are not.

The current rules (since 2009) mandate that the cockpit temperatue must not exceed 32°C:

14.1.9 – Temperature inside the cockpit (Closed cars):
An effective ventilation and/or air conditioning system must:

• Maintain the temperature around the driver when the car is in motion :
  1. at 32°C maximum when the external temperature (*) is less than or equal to 32°C,
  2. at a temperature less than or equal to external temperature (*) if it is above 32°C;
• Get the temperature back down to the value defined above (case 1 or 2) in 8 minutes maximum after a car stop.

(*) The external temperature will be measured in the shade and out of the wind. This temperature will be displayed near the pit lane.

In the past (before 2009) the rules were more relaxed:

14.1.9 – Temperature inside the cockpit (Closed cars):
The ambient temperature around the driver must be controlled:

1. Either with an efficient air conditioning system (strongly recommended) which must:
   ...
2. Or with an efficient cockpit ventilation system which must:
   • Maintain the temperature around the driver at a maximum of 12°C above the actual temperature when the car is in motion.
   • ...

It is best to look at an example. If the ambient temperature is 30°C, the 2007-2008 rules allowed a cockpit temperature of 30+12 = 42°C, but since 2009 the temperature must be 32°C. Therefore, at the moment an air conditioning system is effectively mandatory, especially with warm weather.

In 2007-2008 Peugeot ran without air conditioning, but in 2009-2010 with.

According to this interview with Bruno Farmin, the 2011 rules will again relax the cockpit temperature requirements:

In these rules, you would not have to use air conditioning?
"It is not required at present. It is sufficient to be under the regulatory temperature. However, the conditions are more liberal. And eventually, we may not longer have air conditioning. As we does not have to under the current regulations, depending on the weather."

Clearly this is a compensation for the fact that air conditioning no longer allows for a slightly bigger restrictor.

[gwyllion]

Judd are working on a production-based LMP2 engine (source unspecified) according to Autosport print ed.

source: http://mariantic.co.uk/lmp/

We already have a confirmation of HPD and IES Nissan, and now possibly Judd.

I wondered whether we will see the Sodemo/BMW engine in any form.

[ger80]

Will we see the Spyker/Audi engine in LMP2 too? Would love to hear the 2007 Spyker engine again

[JAG]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

source: http://mariantic.co.uk/lmp/

We already have a confirmation of HPD and IES Nissan, and now possibly Judd.

I wondered whether we will see the Sodemo/BMW engine in any form.

My bet is on a Judd developed Toyota/Lexus V8.

I can't see them developing an engine that is already available in GT2 form whilst I presume they'll also be aiming for manufactuer backing.

[gwyllion]

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmay10.html has an update on the rules. The ACO has not yet finalized the rules, eventhough they promised to do so before the start of the race. The manufacturers are concerned about the grandfathering of 2010 cars.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmay10.html has an update on the rules. The ACO has not yet finalized the rules, eventhough they promised to do so before the start of the race. The manufacturers are concerned about the grandfathering of 2010 cars.

Im starting to think that we should not blame the ACO for the delay of the rules, and instead blame the manufactures for lobbying! (Or blame ACO for letting the manufactures!).

[HORNDAWG]

Seems that Bailey believes they can produce a 2011 P-2 and sell it for under the ACO price cap. Here







L.P.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Seems that Bailey believes they can produce a 2011 P-2 and sell it for under the ACO price cap. Here

Cool.
What has happened with the South African LMP project?, drowned in the Soccer World Cup?

[rich07]

I hear they're waiting to see what restrictions ACO applies to vuvuzelas under the 2011 regulations before making any key decisions.

[Gil Abobeleira]

^

[JAG]

Does anyone think the granfathering regs will even be an issue next year?

Who apart from the Signature Plus Aston Martin and Kolles Audi R10's doesn't have an obvious chassis/engine route to make a 2011 reg P1/P2.

So with Le Mans 2010 having come and gone we're still no closer to having definitive 2011 regulations. In the mean time we understand there is active discussion amongst the manufacturers (the teams are out of the loop) and the ACO. The primary topic of concern are the details of the 2011 grandfathering with the manufacturers and teams waiting with baited breath. One who wishes to remain anonymous recently stated to us in an email, "This is the ACO's to spoil in my opinion. And if they make the restrictions too onerous for current cars many teams may stay at home or do something else next year." Interestingly we're also hearing that the ACO is deathly afraid of this possibility, though the ball's in their court.

Ironically this could end up being a windfall for the American Le Mans Series. While the ALMS hasn't stated anything in regards to 2011, it is pretty well assumed they will adopt less a restrictive interpretation of the ACO's 2011 regulations, slowly integrating the full regulations across a longer time period.

Let's hope the ALMS takes advantage of this potential opportunity.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmay10.html

[chernaudi]

Audi have the R18, and Peugeot the 909, but those cars may be on hold depending on how the ACO works out the equilvalency, not to mention if they ever release a definitive set of regs for next year!

Audi could run the R15 in the ALMS next year in the ALMS is suppose, since they'll likely run a 2010/2011 hybrid rules set. But like last year, we're all waiting on the ACO.

[gwyllion]

Prototypes to adopt F1-style fins

Le Mans prototypes will have to carry Formula 1-style fins from 2011.

The move, decided following a CFD study by Delta Motorsport, is the latest attempt to prevent LMP1 cars from getting airborne during spins or accidents.

Nick Carpenter, who led the research, said: "We found that bigger is better. The point at which the fin starts to become effective is different on open and closed cars, but once you get above a certain height, it works on both.

"The size of the fin overcomes any effect of differences in sidepod or wheelarch geometry between cars."

source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84736

[Victor_RO]

MulsanneMike posted details about this on his website about a month ago.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmay10.html

[gwyllion]

I know, but this article has comments from the person that did the research.

[joeb]

How many incidents were there this year with lmps flipping? I can only think of the jon field incident at sebring. It will be interesting to see the first car with a fin, hope it looks better than it sounds.

[Captain Nemo]

HI EVERYONE! I’m a newcomer here, but I read this forum for a long while. My english is very unperfect, sorry for that. I have some questions, I hope you can answer it, or you have an „close-to-true”minds. Thank you in anticipation for your every single answer!

So the questions:

-What is the current (latest) situation about the coupe/open question? (air condition, aero, drag, speed, pit work, „in rain”, etc.) Hard question: what is the better way now: coupe or open?

-The FIN: will it be obligate, or just an option? In LMP2 as well? Can the constructors build together this fin with the rear wing (like McLaren F1) or no?

-Is there a real chance that Audi and Pug will hold their R18 and 909 projects for a year and prefer R15 and 908 grandfathering? Which would worth better: long wait for the finalised restrictor rules and after proccessing the development for the new cars, or better to do it just for 2012 and using for an extra year the old cars?

-What is your mind about the hybrid rules? Is it clear enough for every contructor now? Will we see in 2011 only diesel+KERS cars or real Diesel Hybrids? What about the current Porsche, Pug and Zytek systems? Real hibrid just years later?

-Which are the really / best possible production engines for LMP2 in 2011? Road going diesels in P2 is a real possibility or only gasoline?

-Pre-selection: how will it work with the new GT rules and with the new ILMC2011, including Le Mans?

-Is there any chance for GT1 and GT3 cars to go to Le Mans with this new rules? Or we will see only a GT2 field in 2011? G Apollo, MC12? F GT? R8 LMS? Alpina?

Thats all…for first.

Waiting for your answers,
Nemo