Ford wants Turbos in 2005

[macdaddy]

Cosworth is set to equip the field throughout 2003 and '04 before CART institutes a new chassis and engine formula, likely to be a gasoline-powered V10. But Cosworth's Champ Car technical director Bruce Wood believes keeping the turbo formula through 2006 would make more sense.

"We think the new formula should be put off until 2006," Wood stated. "People are going to say, ‘Well of course they do because they have a vested interest.' But what I feel is if you're a manufacturer looking to come in and spend 10s of millions of dollars to do this, you have a responsibility to your shareholders to look at CART for the next 12 months to see where it actually goes.

"We all genuinely believe that it's turned the corner and is on the way up toward growing into a great thing, or else we wouldn't be here. But you have to look at where we've been in the last few months and look at the next twelve months to see how the TV ratings and things like that improve.

"So I think CART has the responsibility of not asking the manufacturers to take it on trust. They have to prove it's going to be great, and in twelve months time, it would be too late for anybody to commit for 2005. The last thing we want to do is get to the middle of 2004 and not have anybody committed for 2005."

http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=21873&s=7

In 12 months time, any new manufacturers would still have a full year to develop an engine package. How much more time would they need?

Although I'd love to keep the turbos around for as long as possible, I'd also love to get some competition into the fray.

[norman-normal]

For a high power to weight package with durability, the turbo engine has no equal when it comes to cost.

[Jay]

Go Ford! I wish they'd keep the Turbos, but I can understand why they're looking at the V10s...

[f1manoz]

I want to see CART keep the turbo engines, but if the series can only interest other manufacturers into joining, then maybe CART will have to take another engine route. But please not those whiny V10s...

[Jordi]

whiny... but they sound like thunder. I admit though I've never had the opportunity to listen live to a CART car...

[mirwin]

If they were to bring in the V10's, would they be the exact same rules as in F1? Ford could sell the Cart teams year old F1 engines, which would have to last several races by that point. Wouldn't this save Ford money since they would only have one engine to produce instead of two.

[Snrub]

As far as I'm concerned CART must not repeat the mistakes of the past. Do what Ford asks, period.

The 2003 spec is a great engine package. Cheap, low revs, high power, meaty power curve, super reliable. Go for a conventional gasoline if they must, but turbos should stay. Rev limits and boost governing would ensure that costs and performance stay in check.

IMO Chrysler should be targeted as a future engine supplier. They have the SRT-4, SRT-8, SRT-10, Crossfire and R/T cars, so the image is perfect for them. IMO Ford should be pushing the Mazda brand since they're also going the performance/fun of driving angle.

[mirwin]

Chrysler could easily get involved by rebadging the Mercedes V10. Minimal start-up expenses and guarenteed results.

[evo]

Can't really badge a racecar Mazda unless it's got a ****el Rotary engine in it. Hmm, I wonder how hard it'd be to have an engine rule that made whatever piston engine they want to bring in and a 4-rotor ****el about the same performance. Might be pretty interesting, as long as they don't mimick the ACO and ban it as soon as it wins.

[evo]

w a n k ..... why is that cut by the autocensor?

[macdaddy]

Evo... Try asking Hiro Matsu****a.

[evo]

[BootsOntheSide]

I think the turbos should stay, its what ChampCars are all about. The engines sound sweet without traction control, give great power delivery and ensure a powerful spectacle full of overtaking (except at the street course, but the blame lies with the courses, not the cars).

I agree that Ford are basically trying to control things for themselves here, adn that as long as something is set up this eyar, 2005 is plenty of time to launch an engine Ford could still have an advantage for the new 2005 formula, if a lot of the other suppliers are neew to racing their extra experience will help.

[AGRfan]

i think they should keep the turbos, because turbos are cart, and that the way it should stay. why mess up a good thing

[BSchneiderFan]

Here's a radical idea: don't prescribe and engine format at all, and institute an equivalency rule, so you can run anything from a blown V6 to a normally aspirated flat-12 if you so wish. How could it hurt? Works for sportscars...

[veeten]

Hmmmm... where's Lee when you need him?...

[Snrub]

Originally posted by evo
Can't really badge a racecar Mazda unless it's got a ****el Rotary engine in it. Hmm, I wonder how hard it'd be to have an engine rule that made whatever piston engine they want to bring in and a 4-rotor ****el about the same performance. Might be pretty interesting, as long as they don't mimick the ACO and ban it as soon as it wins.

D*mn right! There have been non-rotary mazda race cars before. A 1308cc turbocharged rotary could easily compete under the current specs.

The history of the rotary in motorsports is that it gets banned or regulated out of competition. The peripheral port was widely banned, so people starting using bridgeports and monster (aka. J) ports (actually cut into the water jacket and pray it lasts the race). It's easy to point out an unfair advantage when your competitor is doing something differently.

The rotary is a perfect example of why I don't think CART should have a variety of engine specs. It's incredibly difficult to mandate fairness. Should a n/a engine get 2x the displacement of a turbo engine? Too much, too little? There's all sorts of quirks that you can't gaurentee fairness. There's always a lot of politics and we don't want another situation like we had with Honda.

[macdaddy]

The pushrod Mercedes was an example of the rules being bent but not broken.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by veeten
Hmmmm... where's Lee when you need him?...

Out getting Chinese food!

I figured I'd lay the banner down for a little while... I _still_ need to finish up that formal letter to CART, though.

Like I've said, the equivalency formula would absolutely rock, but it doesn't seem feasible. I'd still like to see it tried, though.

The basic rule that should be learned here: Do what Ford/Cosworth want! They've stuck with this series through thick and thin, no matter what. Their interests should come first.

[macdaddy]

I'm with Lee on that thought.

[3state]

Turbos for ever!!!

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Like I've said, the equivalency formula would absolutely rock, but it doesn't seem feasible.

Why should an equivalency formula be unfeasible? It works for sportscars. Provided the equivalency is set at the right level, I don't see why turbos and normally aspirated engines shouldn't compete on a level playing field. My hope is that CART doesn't take F1's absurdly prescriptive route. Viva diversity!

[Omega99]

Turbos rule! You guys are totally right to say go with Ford after the way they've stuck with the series.

Another option would be turbocharged V-10s, that way everybody's happy . I'd bet one of those would kick out about 1200hp and be nearly undriveable without acitve traction control. If you go changing the formula to the point where Ford can't develop an engine economically they might pull out. Maybe CART should just stick with Ford's formula and allow other manufacturers to develop to their specs, and if no one wants to so what? You may only have one manufacturer in 2005 but at least you will have at least one engine. Can't drive a car without an engine now can you.

The main disadvantage I see with giving F1 manufacturers the opportunity to modify their engines slightly to run V-10s in CART is, well, that you end up with F1 engines in CART. This can only result in F1 style competition, with Ferrari dominating, and providing the possibility of a one team/driver series. While because of CART's rules other other teams could use the Ferrari engine, but then everyone will go with what wins so you'll end up with a one engine series anyway, and would have saved a lot of effort and money by listening to Ford in the first place. Look what happened to Reynard last year. They had their hats fed to them by Lola and were almost forced out of the series which would have made it a one chasis series.

Bottom line = Do what Ford says. Stick with what works: Turbos! They sound too sweet to give up.

One more thing, Rotaries would be sweet! (Probably not going to happen though)

[macdaddy]

"...allow other manufacturers to develop to their specs, and if no one wants to so what?"

CART needs more than one engine manufacturer. Right now there isn't that option, but come '05 or even '06 we need competition. What if the management at Ford decides to bail out someday and concentrate their dollars elsewhere? No racing series can afford to keep all of their eggs in one basket.

[Lee Janotta]

Which Ford don't. They participate in F1, WRC, CART, NASCAR, ALMS, and hunreds regional and national series around the globe. It's fair to say they race more than any other manufacturer.