Mercedes eyes CART return

[Muzza]

As disclosed by a company engineer, Mercedes Benz has appointed a team to prepare a feasibility study regarding a possible return to CART.

Analysing the outlook of the future of racing is a common exercise at Mercedes, so this does not indicate by any means a commitment by the Stuttgart marque to CART.

Nevertheless, considering the schedule required to develop a competitive engine and the time span between now and the introduction of the new CART engine regulations for the 2005 season and onwards, it makes sense.

[Omega99]

Good news. I'm sure Mercedes would love to be in a series where they aren't competing against Ferrari.

Just out of curiosity, where'd you hear this? Might this just one more rumor that never amounts to anything? I hope not...

[tanalised]

By the time they left last time in CART didn't the Merc engine suck?

[Muzza]

Hello, Omega99,

I have several friends working for Mercedes Benz, mostly engineers, some in Stuttgart. None of them is directly engaged on the feasibility study group I mentioned above, but they are in contact with people that are.

Regards,

[Lee Janotta]

You never fail to amaze me, Muzza... Especially with that Mario Andretti story.

I'm just very worried that Pook is counting on Mercedes and VAG to build V-10s for the series, and in my judgement, it's foolish to put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak, with a completely new engine formula with _no_ firm commitments from suppliers. Especially one that doesn't offer the benefits Honda and Toyota wanted when they left CART: Extensive technology crossover with another series they're in, and lower costs.

[Muzza]

Originally posted by tanalised
By the time they left last time in CART didn't the Merc engine suck?

Yes, the Mercedes engine was disappointing by the end of the marque's involvement with CART in 2000. Around a year and half earlier, on the second half of 1999, Mercedes had already decided to concentrate in Formula 1 in detriment of CART.

The facts that Honda and Toyota were putting more resources into CART than what Mercedes was ready to commit to continue to be competitive, and that Mercedes Benz USA was not so keen on increasing its pay share on costs, did not help either.

Regards,

Muzza

[Muzza]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
You never fail to amaze me, Muzza... Especially with that Mario Andretti story.

Man, every time I remember of that moment I blush!

Originally posted by Lee Janotta

I'm just very worried that Pook is counting on Mercedes and VAG to build V-10s for the series,(...)

In my opinion that chances of having any brand of the Volkswagen Group joining CART - are you guessing at Audi, Lee? - are slimmer than Mercedes', at least as of today.

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
(...)Especially one that doesn't offer the benefits Honda and Toyota wanted when they left CART: Extensive technology crossover with another series they're in, and lower costs.

And besides what you said, Lee, CART today is a shadow of its former self on another departmeent too: media exposure, thus investment return.

[RapidTron]

Is Mercedes going to build it in-house or pay someone else to build them?

[GTRMagic]

I thought CART was to run as a spec engine formula for the next few seasons??

[Crash Test]

At least with the spec engines, they are cheap, and will run forever... just what the series needs atm. Maybe we can have some more makes when we the teams that have the finances behind them to support any new makes.

[GTRMagic]

Perhaps if CART is dealing with Cosworth, they could get rebadged as Mercedes-Cosworths if Ford loses heart??

[Crash Test]

Whats the relationship between Cosworth and Ford these days?

[racer69]

I think Ford owns Cosworth nowadays.

[DNQ]

That is correct. I believe they bought Cosworth sometime around the turn of the decade, maybe a bit before.

[GTRMagic]

But Cosworth is designed to make money (which is against every grain of every engine builder elsewhere in the world) and could possibly rebadge the engines like Ilmor does for the 3 pointed star

[Lee Janotta]

Ford does own Cosworth. Cosworth can undertake their own projects, but Ford will never let them work for another manufacturer. Likewise, Mercedes owns Ilmor, who build almost all of the Mercedes race engines out there, and would almost certainly build this one, if it ever happens.

Volkswagen or Audi, Muzza... And I think they've got a better chance of finding Jimmy Hoffa's body while building that new speedway in Jersey! But Pook keeps dropping hints about several German manufacturers.

And you're right, no matter what we think, the series isn't a great advertising value at the moment, and perhaps lower-tech but still very powerful powerplants would be an extremely effective way to trim costs while still allowing manufacturers in. Eh, but I don't have any lobbying clout, and seeing the stupid decisions the people in charge of CART consistently make, it probably wouldn't make a difference if I did.

[BSchneiderFan]

Ford owns Cosworth Racing.

Confusingly, VAG owns Cosworth Engineering.

Either way, I don't see why Cosworth (Racing) couldn't do stuff for another manufacturer; after all, (Mercedes-Benz-owned) Ilmor builds Honda's IRL engines.

[BootsOntheSide]

Mercedes seem like a reasonable bet for one of the engine suppliers once CART opens up the engine formula, probably for 2005. They have had success in the past, are now doing better in F1 than when they diverted all their resources to that, and other rumours suggest that they may drop their DTM (top German-based Touring Car series) programme, which would free up the finance. The new regulations will be cheaper, without Toyota and Honda raising the spending to superhuman levels. Sadly, this kind of suggestion makes V10s more likely, which, ideally, I'd rather not see.

[Snrub]

Mercedes produced a great CART engine for a lot of the 90s. Unfortunately they were a bit behind honda in 1999 and stunk in 2000. Moore was robbed of a lot of success because of them.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
The new regulations will be cheaper, without Toyota and Honda raising the spending to superhuman levels. Sadly, this kind of suggestion makes V10s more likely, which, ideally, I'd rather not see.

Uhm... No guarantee at all that they're going to be cheaper.

And who says Toyota and Honda won't come back? And Mercedes has a history of insane spending as well.

[veeten]

It seems that with CART managment having full athority on new manufacturer involvement, for both engines and chassis, it may allow a few more conpanies to do feasability studies upon the entry and competition in Champcars. As it presently stands, there are several manufacturers that use outside partners that assist in engineering for their present racing programs. With these companies ( Illmor, Cosworth, Meccachrome, Mugen, and others), it will become easier for them to either use present or past designs with changes for the CART '05+ formula.

The present powertrain is only an interim, basically to maintain the racing for the next few years. While this is happening, the behind-the-scenes work of both CART & the engine/chassis manufacturers continues, with announcements made at a later time. It's not necessesary that they have to be made just after the contracts have been signed, that's up to the PR departments of the entities involved.

Even if the '05 timeline is pushed back one year, as was attributed by Ford/Cosworth in an interview a while back, the same rules would be there with the number of participents who've signed on. No losses there.

[Flatspot]

As I recall the last MB/CART engine was an Illmor. Anyone have any insight as to if this will be the same on this go around?

Personally, I'd like to see Illmor back in the game.

[Stevespurr]

if mercedes do go back to cart will it be detremental for mclaren what with the team struggling to get the engines they have to preform as well as the fiat engine of farrari

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by veeten
Even if the '05 timeline is pushed back one year, as was attributed by Ford/Cosworth in an interview a while back, the same rules would be there with the number of participents who've signed on. No losses there.

As I keep saying, there's nothing to lose yet. All CART has for '05 is a box full of maybes.

[kdr]

Originally posted by RapidTron
Is Mercedes going to build it in-house or pay someone else to build them?

wasn't the cart mercedes engine, like the f1 engine - designed and built by ilmor?

although i think mercedes stick a three pointed star badge on it...