[LM24] Nissan return to Le Mans (G56)

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

So a major global manufacturer announcing a return to the highest echelons of endurance racing isn't worth the hype?

Really????

Honestly guys words fail me.

I'm with you, wondering why all the hatred. But guess it is easy to spend someone else's money. It seems like everyone thinks Nissan should just be shoveling money in like it is raining from the sky without a single accountant in the company. You give Nissan a chance to get involved in marketable ways and they might stick around long term. But then I've always been confused about why people who ***** so much about why everything sucks and it will never be as good as it was keep following just to cry??

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Run a GTE, not an exhibition car.

Does the GTE rules allow for a zero emissions car? Would it be nearly as competitive a platform in GTE as it would be in a prototype?

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Simmi

What I do like about this is that Nissan have committed to actually putting pen to paper and building something vs the DW route.

So that's a net gain in a sense and let's see where it goes. They are clearly committed to LM/Sportscar racing - albeit from that different angle. If it is PR, I'd rather they were trying to build racing cars than making robots or something. I am sceptical about a P1 return. I think they had to say that so people (and the ACO) didn't think they were taking the mick. They are easy words to say, but DC hasn't said them before until now. IF this latest effort is of P1 pace then it's a big story.

When you get in the bubble (and I'm super guilty of this) you can't always see it but you end up blasting manufacturers who are spending money in this arena when there are so many that aren't.

While it is a HUGE positive Nissan sees value in motorsport, it isn't motorSPORT unless there is an element of competition. Audi had to raise their game last year because Toyota (IMO) surprised them. You don't think those engineers take that increased standard of excellence back to the road car side of things?

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I'm with you, wondering why all the hatred. But guess it is easy to spend someone else's money. It seems like everyone thinks Nissan should just be shoveling money in like it is raining from the sky without a single accountant in the company. You give Nissan a chance to get involved in marketable ways and they might stick around long term. But then I've always been confused about why people who ***** so much about why everything sucks and it will never be as good as it was keep following just to cry??

The WEC and Le Mans are fantastic. The tone comes from being sold an informercial basically, not a RACE program. I would rather see a high tech GTE from them than the G56.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

And I'd bet that they got into Delta Wing with the intention of going zero emission with it as well.

No, but they may have gone the DW route to get a foot in with the ACO for another shot at G56. Marketing.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

You are on a roll tonight, spot on! LMP1 is a technology showcase already, remind me why again do we need Garage 56? Honestly, what is a bigger draw as a fan to attend the race in 2014? 3 LMP1 factories (which is fantastic) plus G56, or 4 LMP1 factories battling it out?

And what purpose would that serve Nissan? Let's go whole hog and take on three of the most matured sportscar entities in the world with our tiny budget that we had to beg and plead for and now we have all the pressure and none of the tools to win.



That's as ludicrous as an National F3 driver with two years experience turning up to a driver shootout with 2 world champions and the top rookie after wasting all the energy to round up the sponsors necessary to get that test. Unless they could get a Dome and a Signature to design and run the thing at basically quid pro quo rates, then it's going to be a failure.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

And what purpose would that serve Nissan? Let's go whole hog and take on three of the most matured sportscar entities in the world with our tiny budget that we had to beg and plead for and now we have all the pressure and none of the tools to win.

That's how manufacturers have always tackled Le Mans or any other series for that matter.

If you want to race in F1 you have to build a F1 car. That's how it is...this Garage 56 is really backfiring as it gives manufactures the chance to participate in a event without actually participating in it.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Acid09

That's how manufacturers have always tackled Le Mans or any other series for that matter.

If you want to race in F1 you have to build a F1 car. That's how it is...this Garage 56 is really backfiring as it gives manufactures the chance to participate in a event without actually participating in it.

And how long do those programs usually last?

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Does the GTE rules allow for a zero emissions car?

Neither do the LMP1 rules, or the known laws of physics for that matter. 0 emisdions = 100% bs.

[Graham Goodwin]

2014 LMP1 is all about hybrids - that only works as a tech showcase IF YOU BUILD HYBRIDS.

Happy for you to carry on agreeing how outrageous this all is and ignoring the realities of life that unless Nissan can persuade the rulemakers to open up the LMP1 rules to wider tech solutions they can't unlock the budgets to come - Garage 56 in 2014 is the key to that.

If you choose to see it as a standalone marketing exercise then prepare to be wrong!

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

And how long do those programs usually last?

Varying length, we have seen anything from two to 15 years.

What exactly leads you to believe that Nissan's approach leads to a longer program? They get the marketing gain up front..why buy the cow if you can have the milk for free?

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

2014 LMP1 is all about hybrids - that only works as a tech showcase IF YOU BUILD HYBRIDS.

Infiniti do build hybrids.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Varying length, we have seen anything from two to 15 years.

What exactly leads you to believe that Nissan's approach leads to a longer program? They get the marketing gain up front..why buy the cow if you can have the milk for free?

I don't believe it will lead to a longer one. It will lead to a cheaper one.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Infiniti do build hybrids.

Infiniti is "in" F1.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

And what purpose would that serve Nissan? Let's go whole hog and take on three of the most matured sportscar entities in the world with our tiny budget that we had to beg and plead for and now we have all the pressure and none of the tools to win.



That's as ludicrous as an National F3 driver with two years experience turning up to a driver shootout with 2 world champions and the top rookie after wasting all the energy to round up the sponsors necessary to get that test. Unless they could get a Dome and a Signature to design and run the thing at basically quid pro quo rates, then it's going to be a failure.

We have no idea of their budget. They are part of a huge global car company that is involved in many levels of motorsport including F1. And Nissan themselves have history at Le Mans. Renault showed their new F1 engine for 2014 today. Where is the David vs. Goliath idea coming from? If they truly wanted to improve their product they would compete IMO. They said themselves at this point it is about exposure for the Nismo name. You know the best kind of exposure? Winning.
When their P1 chassis is starting development THEN I will get excited. For now let's hope this is genuinely a project to develop an engine for their entry into LMP1. And let's hope that comes sooner rather than later.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Infiniti is "in" F1.

As a sponsor.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Infiniti do build hybrids.

Didn't hear the 'I' word during that announcement - Did you?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

2014 LMP1 is all about hybrids - that only works as a tech showcase IF YOU BUILD HYBRIDS.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...847630902.html

Seems to me that they plan on building hybrids.

[Graham Goodwin]

That's as maybe - but they already build and sell all electric - the article you link to talks of lower than hoped for sales - a succesful racing programme might be just the thing to change that - In not a disimilar way as Audi achieved with TDI, changing the public image of an unfashionable tech solution.

Honestly guys you can choose to see this as some sort of cloak and dagger non programme if you wish, but you'd be wrong.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

That's as maybe - but they already build and sell all electric - the article you link to talks of lower than hoped for sales - a succesful racing programme might be just the thing to change that - In not a disimilar way as Audi achieved with TDI, changing the public image of an unfashionable tech solution.

Honestly guys you can choose to see this as some sort of cloak and dagger non programme if you wish, but you'd be wrong.

When do you think Nissan will be in LMP1?

2015?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

That's as maybe - but they already build and sell all electric - the article you link to talks of lower than hoped for sales - a succesful racing programme might be just the thing to change that - In not a disimilar way as Audi achieved with TDI, changing the public image of an unfashionable tech solution.

Honestly guys you can choose to see this as some sort of cloak and dagger non programme if you wish, but you'd be wrong.

So they plan on racing an all electric as a real LMP1, or some other sort of non-conventional energy?

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

So they plan on racing an all electric as a real LMP1, or some other sort of non-conventional energy?

I genuinely don'y know - But read their statements - Whatever they are planning is not accommodated by the current rules it seems

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

When do you think Nissan will be in LMP1?

2015?

As soon as they believe they can be competitive within the rules

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

I genuinely don'y know - But read their statements - Whatever they are planning is not accommodated by the current rules it seems

So to summarize, they are going to run an engineering exercise to try and convince the ACO to change their rules, to accommodate something in the future maybe. I wish them luck, I'd love to see Nissan do something in Endurance Racing in one of the top classes. Shame on the ACO for once again creating a set of rules preventing greatness. Hybrid, the new Diesel.

[cmk]

I commend Nissan insofar as opening up the top class to even more innovation is a laudable goal, but I'm less excited about a tech demonstrator and a "maybe, when it is suitable" statement about LMP1 than an actual competition car of any sort. I realize that every program is a "maybe" until the car hits the track (see the old Porsche LMP900) but I was a lot more excited by Porsche's 2014 P1 announcement way back when than by this.

I think the problem here stems partly from the fact that Nissan's already milked the G56 thing with the Delta Wing, which really thickens the patina of marketing over competition. Kudos to them for their P2 engines and GT Academy, which means they aren't just milking the LM press machine without contributing to the racing. Still, I think a factory GTE program would have been a good-faith investment in the ACO since the GT3 car is just an SRO machine. If they see the KERS powerplants in the RB F1 cars as a better fit for Infiniti's hybrid marketing, that's fine too.

Should they bring a P1 to the table, especially a truly radical one, I'll be among the first to jump for joy. For now, I feel we're being sold futures under the expectation that we'll react as though we've been sold the commodity. I don't think that flies in this day and age.