Goodwood 81st Members' Meeting - 13th/14th April 2024

[Mike Harte]

Peter, is your old Rover jinxed at Goodwood; it doesn't seem to have made either races?

As to the first lap race of the Gordon Spice Sprint, if the driver of the Mini had got off the brakes when he got it all wrong and was locked up over the grass, then he may have been able to get control of the car rather than spearing across the track into the Rover.

[Peter Mallett]

The Rover? It had an overheating diff, something we experienced so we put a better diff pump and cooler on it, but you need to change them regularly.

Don't know about today's race though.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

He's been made a House Captain. I recall a few years ago he was one of the drivers on a "restricted" list.

The event has changed, I felt quite lonely wandering the paddock couldn't find a familiar face outside Tiff and Jamie Chadwick. When it first started we had people I raced with like Skid Scarborough, Mark Fowler, Jim Morris etc. Now the event is filled with professional teams. Still a great spectacle but not what it was.

Indeed, Peter, sadly us Old Gits view it as a celebration of times past, but Goodwood sees it as a Commercial Venture, designed to attract rich sponsors and paying punters, hence Touring car stars abound, 'celebrity drivers' multiply, and dubious standards excused.
Money talks, tradition walks.

Spectacular TV at the expense of sporting behaviour.

Bauble Sad Old Git 1st Class.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

He's been made a House Captain. I recall a few years ago he was one of the drivers on a "restricted" list.

The event has changed, I felt quite lonely wandering the paddock couldn't find a familiar face outside Tiff and Jamie Chadwick. When it first started we had people I raced with like Skid Scarborough, Mark Fowler, Jim Morris etc. Now the event is filled with professional teams. Still a great spectacle but not what it was.

I appreciate that Goodwood has a need to fill up it's grids so they do invite quite a few gentlefolk drivers so that they bring along their cars that Goodwood want for the races. However, that also brings it's own problems, and this was most noticeable especially during the sprint races when some of the cars at the back where being lapped after just 3 laps and sometimes 2 or 3 times.

Worse than that, there seemed to be a lack of awareness of some of those backmarkers, with quite a few unnecessarily squeezing the cars lapping them.

Although there was some good racing over the weekend, I don't think that this was the best Members' Meeting that I've watched over the last few years. Having said that, at least most of the coverage was centred on the racing and not on all the other stuff that goes on at Goodwood.

[Speedy norm]

Originally Posted by bauble

Indeed, Peter, sadly us Old Gits view it as a celebration of times past, but Goodwood sees it as a Commercial Venture, designed to attract rich sponsors and paying punters, hence Touring car stars abound, 'celebrity drivers' multiply, and dubious standards excused.
Money talks, tradition walks.

Spectacular TV at the expense of sporting behaviour.

Bauble Sad Old Git 1st Class.

Allow me to join the ranks

[SSmith]

The racing was enjoyable. The Sidecars were a great addition and the Can-Am demo was great. The racecraft on display in lots of races was great, such as the battle for the win early on in the Peter Collins Trophy, in the S.F. Edge races, Parnell Cup lead battle, and among some of the frontrunners in the Surtees Trophy and Derek Bell Cup.

The number of incidents overall seemed less than some years as well.

Having watched Goodwood events in full since 2014 (although always from home on YouTube) it has been noticeable how the Goodwood grids have changed in terms of competitors and (in some races) the variety of cars. It becomes especially noticeable when watching older races and collecting the race programmes/entry cards for all the Revivals and MMs.

I personally enjoy having celebrity drivers, but I dislike how the broadcast focuses very heavily on them to the detriment of other drivers in the race.

I seem to remember the Gerry Marshall Trophy/Gordon Spice Trophy having a lot of variety in the early years with that variety reflected in the grid order and race result (multiple Rovers battling Ford Capris, a few Minis, only a couple of American muscle cars, several Dolomites, the VW Golf, Alfa GTV, a couple of BMWs, a few Escorts, a couple of Vauxhalls and oddballs like the Mazda RX7 and Opel Commodore). Now it seems that unless you have a Mustang or a Camaro you have very little chance of winning, not to take anything away from the talent of several drivers at the front. It also perplexes me that after accidents at the start every year in the reverse-grid sprint they still organise it for the following year!

Being of the target younger generation, for me the improvement in social media social media posts, image quality, production quality etc. has been fantastic.

Commentary and broadcast team was good this year and it was nice to have consistency after lots of changes in the past few years. There were a few stylistic things I didn't like and if I were to really nitpick, it was as if some cars were completely invisible in some races - e.g., the HW Alta-Jaguar went from P20 to P9 in the Peter Collins Trophy without being mentioned or featured on screen and in lots of races there was very little interesting information shared about a lot of the cars. That being said, with Google and TSL Timing it can be remedied from home.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I appreciate that Goodwood has a need to fill up it's grids so they do invite quite a few gentlefolk drivers so that they bring along their cars that Goodwood want for the races. However, that also brings it's own problems, and this was most noticeable especially during the sprint races when some of the cars at the back where being lapped after just 3 laps and sometimes 2 or 3 times.

Worse than that, there seemed to be a lack of awareness of some of those backmarkers, with quite a few unnecessarily squeezing the cars lapping them.

Although there was some good racing over the weekend, I don't think that this was the best Members' Meeting that I've watched over the last few years. Having said that, at least most of the coverage was centred on the racing and not on all the other stuff that goes on at Goodwood.

Yes, there did seem to be a much larger performance differential in quite a few races than I would have anticipated. Some of that seemed to be the sort of cars being invited (irrespective of driving ability) - such as an Arnolt Bristol Bolide (irrespective of driver) always going to be considerably slower than a Jaguar D-type or Maserati 250S! Similarly (and as pointed out in commentary I think) the Morgan Plus 4 SLR in a field with Cobras and E-types.

The squeezing in some races was not great and ultimately was a deciding factor in the outcome of the Surtees Trophy.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Peter, is your old Rover jinxed at Goodwood; it doesn't seem to have made either races?

As to the first lap race of the Gordon Spice Sprint, if the driver of the Mini had got off the brakes when he got it all wrong and was locked up over the grass, then he may have been able to get control of the car rather than spearing across the track into the Rover.

That was my first thought about the Mini, but I did wonder whether the steering had broken as in one shot of it from the front the left wheel seemed to be steering hard left, whereas a shot of it from the rear seemed to show the right wheel steering right...... I'd need to go back and review the footage to be sure, tho......


What did surprise me was the delay in red-flagging it - I called it as a red flag as soon as it happened.....

[Peter Mallett]

I haven't seen the coverage. Which mini hit which Rover?

[coppice]

Originally Posted by bauble

Indeed, Peter, sadly us Old Gits view it as a celebration of times past, but Goodwood sees it as a Commercial Venture, designed to attract rich sponsors and paying punters, hence Touring car stars abound, 'celebrity drivers' multiply, and dubious standards excused.
Money talks, tradition walks.

Spectacular TV at the expense of sporting behaviour.

Bauble Sad Old Git 1st Class.

Well, I first went to Goodwood in 1999 and while I began to find the Revival a little too much of a panto , I adore the MM and have rarely missed one. Frankly, I don't care too much who is driving , I go to watch the cars . The fact they are not exact replicas of their in period counterparts does not keep me awake at night . And as long as drivers can cane the arse of their car , they can be former F1 or BTCC stars , or relative nobodies. As a mere civilian I don't know many drivers but the fact that everyone you meet is happy to chat is testament to a simply wonderful event.

[GORDON STREETER]

I made this video of the 2015 MM, was it better 9 years ago ?
https://youtu.be/MzNv9dkRb2E

[Peter Mallett]

I was speaking more from the ex entrant's point of view. The real amatuers don't get invited anymore. Hey ho.

I'm still processing all my photos but here's a few from Saturday:

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I made this video of the 2015 MM, was it better 9 years ago ?
https://youtu.be/MzNv9dkRb2E

Good stuff. I recall being incredibly nervous.

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I haven't seen the coverage. Which mini hit which Rover?

It would appear to be the Larry Warr driven Mini collected the Nick Sleep Rover.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

It would appear to be the Larry Warr driven Mini collected the Nick Sleep Rover.

The Mini T-boned the Rover.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

That was my first thought about the Mini, but I did wonder whether the steering had broken as in one shot of it from the front the left wheel seemed to be steering hard left, whereas a shot of it from the rear seemed to show the right wheel steering right...... I'd need to go back and review the footage to be sure, tho......


What did surprise me was the delay in red-flagging it - I called it as a red flag as soon as it happened.....

What I saw, maybe mistakenly, was the driver skating across the grass, which may have been wet/damp and/or greasy, and he trying to get back on the track as quickly as possible but before he had full control of it.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I haven't seen the coverage. Which mini hit which Rover?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5qgU2NbaGo
Last race of the weekend, only 15' to go and a full pack of Minis leading the batch because of the inverted grid at the start, anything bad could happen. Many drivers have been very carefull in the traffic, avoiding any situation of contact (Ric Wood being a perfect example imo).

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5qgU2NbaGo
Last race of the weekend, only 15' to go and a full pack of Minis leading the batch because of the inverted grid at the start, anything bad could happen. Many drivers have been very carefull in the traffic, avoiding any situation of contact (Ric Wood being a perfect example imo).

It was very difficult for all the far more powerful cars behind the Minis because, whether he was joking or not, but Nick Swift said afterwards that he and the other Mini drivers were trying to at least lead the whole lap, and I am sure that having the 3 Minis abreast for a lot of that lap must have been very frustrating for all those much faster cars.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by coppice

Well, I first went to Goodwood in 1999 and while I began to find the Revival a little too much of a panto , I adore the MM and have rarely missed one. Frankly, I don't care too much who is driving , I go to watch the cars . The fact they are not exact replicas of their in period counterparts does not keep me awake at night . And as long as drivers can cane the arse of their car , they can be former F1 or BTCC stars , or relative nobodies. As a mere civilian I don't know many drivers but the fact that everyone you meet is happy to chat is testament to a simply wonderful event.

Well, Coppice that means that I am right, and the Commercial Venture is succeeding, also you are right in that regardless of 'tradition' (for want of a better word) the racing is often spectacular, and for many spectators seeing their idols from Touring cars etc. is a major attraction, so who am I to knock it?
I certainly would not criticise (who's he kidding) the running of the event, but like some older types regret the loss of the spirit of the past, when things were friendlier somehow.

We should not fall out over such trivial matters, but I am sorry, you do not qualify for 'Crusty Old Git Status'


Kind regards,

Bob aka Bauble.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

It would appear to be the Larry Warr driven Mini collected the Nick Sleep Rover.

In fairness to Warr, it was the initial contact on him by Sleep that sent him off track in the first place.

At 3:25 in the video linked earlier by Gerard, the slo-mo replays show it clearly.

It also shows Warr's brakes on and locked up (damp grass?) before rejoining the track in an out of control state.... im not sure the point of re-entry to the track was intent or more physics / lack of control. The result was unfortunate at best.

Certainly a red was obviously needed and should have been called quicker than it was.

[Peter Mallett]

There were two original BSCC Rovers, one ex works, one ex Patrick Motorsport, an ex French Touring Car and one replica, of which the PM blew its engine in qualifying, the Daily Express Rover overheated its diff in qualifying and the Marlboro Rover (ex Rene Metge) was hit by the mini on Sunday. Poor old Rovers always seem to struggle here.

[coppice]

Originally Posted by bauble

Well, Coppice that means that I am right, and the Commercial Venture is succeeding, also you are right in that regardless of 'tradition' (for want of a better word) the racing is often spectacular, and for many spectators seeing their idols from Touring cars etc. is a major attraction, so who am I to knock it?
I certainly would not criticise (who's he kidding) the running of the event, but like some older types regret the loss of the spirit of the past, when things were friendlier somehow.

We should not fall out over such trivial matters, but I am sorry, you do not qualify for 'Crusty Old Git Status'


Kind regards,

Bob aka Bauble.

I'll survive , just . But let's forget that stars and 'slebs' are no stranger to Goodwood. On my early visits I saw lots of names like Gerry Marshall , Mark Knopfler , Rowan Atkinson , Jack Brabham , Derek Bell et al . As for 'idols', leave that to lesser meetings. I don't do hero worship , heaven forfend, but it's an eyeopener for this cynical old git to see the sort of hysteria you get at BTCC and F1.

[Derwent]

Do the pro drivers get paid for racing at Goodwood?

[Gerard C]

I found the Can-Am parade quite interesting even though not very fast together with the side-cars. The SF Edge Trophy is a pure tribute to gladiators and the winner J Majzub is a genuine hero imo. If you missed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c26BcM96OwQ
Wildest moments here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWXfftiV5w0
All in all a great event as usual.

[bauble]

Well, I first went to Goodwood in 1999

Coppice.

My first visit to Goodwood was in 1952, and it looked a whole lot different to the 2024 Members Meeting today.