Jos Verstappen ....how do you rate him

Sato san · 7 Jul 2002, 21:02 (Ref:328987)

As there seems to be a lot of talk going on about Jos in other threads ,so i thought id start this one so we can all have a chat about what we really think about Jos.

Personally , i think he got a raw deal by Tom Walkinshaw and was treated really badly . But i dont regard him as one of the best drivers either . I dont really think he would have made it to the top , although he has had times where he has had flashes of good speed .

But then , he hasnt ever had the chance to show his stuff in a top notch car has he ? , apart from 94 at Benneton , but he was to young then to be able to jump straight in and win , although he did get 2 podiums that year .

I always felt that Jos 's best year in F1 was 1995 for Simtek . That year he made that car qualify much higher than it deserved , but then Simtek went broke before mid season.

what do you think ?

NiceGuyEddie · 7 Jul 2002, 21:29 (Ref:329005)

Driverwise, he always was a bit of a questionmark.

His performances in races were rather inconstitent. From storming drives to rather anonymous cruising. He was capable enough to be in F1, but not capable enough to score at a strucural level.

His doubtful debut at Benetton in 1994 is no excuse. The history of F1 shows too much drivers who were younger than Jos with half the pre-F1 experience, who did very well on their debuts (to keep it up to date: Button, Raikkonen, Massa). The fact that Ron Dennis and Eddie Jordan lost out on his services for 1994 to Flavio, but never offered him a drive again (even not when Flavio let him go) says enough.

Besides, where as Flavio felt it necessary for Jos to take him out of the Benetton after 10 GP's due to lack of experience, he DID take on Jenson Button for a drive in 2001 when HE had only 10 races under his belt (he signed Button at the Hungarian GP in 2000, which was his 10th F1 GP or so...)

Jos was destined to be fulltime racing for Benetton in F1 for 1995, but it never was to be. Doing 10 GP weekends in 1994 plus the testing should be enough for any driver to gain plenty of experience, but apperantly not for Jos. Sure, Herberts wins that year spoiled his chances for getting back in the car, but on the other hand, Benetton was happy enough with Herbert to let it be. So good for Herbert, pity for Jos.

So I think you have to conclude that Jos' showing in the Benetton in 1994 wasn't up to the expectations, but Jos couldnt do much better than that. He proved that in the following years.

His campaigns at Arrows (1996), Tyrrell (1997), Stewart (1998) and back at Arrows (2000 and 2001) all werent very convincing. Not convincing enough to interest (sub) topteams in retaining his services anyway. Stewart simply fired him. Allthough his fans say he was sabotaged with lesser equipment then Barrichello, regardless of the quality of equipment, the team knows how well you are performing, and the team took their conclusion. Jos was out (again in favour of Johnny Herbert, who, ironically enough again managed to take a win).

The quality of the cars is also no excuse for not convincing the teambosses. Many drivers have proven their speed in underpowered cars (Alonso, Fisichella, Webber, Trulli).

I say his best year was with Arrows in 2000. He teamed up well with Pedro Delarosa, and had some solid drives. 2001 was slightly less convincing again, raising doubts for being outgunned by a paying rookie (Bernoldi) in qualifying, as the second half of the season lead to trouble between him and the team, which lead to a very non-motivated and even underperforming Jos.

That is probably where is personality gets in the way.

The manner in which Walkinshaw releaved Jos from his contractuel duties, said alot in my view. Its been said that Jos had to read in the paper that HHF was taking his place, and that Tom needed no more than 10 seconds to explain things to him on the phone. That says to me that the team wanted to get rid of him as well.

If we put Jos in the balance, I'd say Formula 1 does not need him anymore and is better left moving on with young talents. Just like Jos was back in 1993.

If he desperatly wants to be in F1, his chances lie with Minardi and/or Asiatech.

BootsOntheSide · 7 Jul 2002, 23:29 (Ref:329062)

My opinion is that Arrows have chosen the best possible lineup from Jos, HH and Enrique, and not just because of Enrique's Red Bull money. Jos is certainly a case of potential evaporating through a sheer lack of stability, an issue his manager Huub Rothengatter (the legendary God Of the Rats) has mentioned in the past.

Jos is better than some of the drivers today, especially a certain Malaysian, but there are lots of better younger drivers waiting in the wings. Most of his career he has been outdone by any team-mate with topline or even regular f1 status (Michael, Rubens, Salo, Bernoldi, De La Rosa), and his impressive overtaking stats are largely down to his poor qualifying efforts combines with low fuel starts.

He's more dross than boss frankly, and I know I'm not alone in not forgiving him for Brazil last year.

Raven · 8 Jul 2002, 02:03 (Ref:329089)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
My opinion is that Arrows have chosen the best possible lineup from Jos, HH and Enrique, and not just because of Enrique's Red Bull money. Jos is certainly a case of potential evaporating through a sheer lack of stability, an issue his manager Huub Rothengatter (the legendary God Of the Rats) has mentioned in the past.

Jos is better than some of the drivers today, especially a certain Malaysian, but there are lots of better younger drivers waiting in the wings. Most of his career he has been outdone by any team-mate with topline or even regular f1 status (Michael, Rubens, Salo, Bernoldi, De La Rosa), and his impressive overtaking stats are largely down to his poor qualifying efforts combines with low fuel starts.

He's more dross than boss frankly, and I know I'm not alone in not forgiving him for Brazil last year.

Good post. Totally sums up my opinion of Jos as well.

Don K · 8 Jul 2002, 05:28 (Ref:329119)

Amongst the 40 drivers from the 1999-2002 years I rate him 27th in qualifying and 18th on race results.
Out of the 22 drivers who rate worse than Jos, only 8 are in F1 at the moment.

Guy Goddard2 · 8 Jul 2002, 18:10 (Ref:329585)

Why does this man keep coming up on threads, he's acheived nothing in an F1 car, crashed more times than Sato in his early years and was only ever quick on a light fuel load.
Gone and forgotten, lets talk about Riccardo Rossett instead.

**Peter Mallett** · 8 Jul 2002, 18:31 (Ref:329603)

In answer to the question. Not very good.

Mr V · 8 Jul 2002, 18:55 (Ref:329628)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sato san
But then , he hasnt ever had the chance to show his stuff in a top notch car has he ? , apart from 94 at Benneton , but he was to young then to be able to jump straight in and win , although he did get 2 podiums that year .

Isn't this the difference between a good driver and a brilliant driver? The Benetton B194 that Jos drove was a better car than the B192 that Schumacher had in '92, but he still took a (lucky?) win in Spa in only his 18th race!

I do agree though that Tom gave Jos a bum deal at the start of the season, but, as has been said (many times!) in the past, given the chance of HH-F or Jos......no contest!

Sato san · 8 Jul 2002, 19:52 (Ref:329684)

Quote:

Originally posted by Guy Goddard2
Why does this man keep coming up on threads, he's acheived nothing in an F1 car,

sorry , its just he keeps coming up in other threads and i thought it would be clearer to have a separate thread so that everyone could say exactly what they thought about him . Good or bad .

Quote:

Originally posted by Guy Goddard2
lets talk about Riccardo Rossett instead.

ok then.......Riccardo is even worse than Jos .

El_Gibleto · 8 Jul 2002, 20:15 (Ref:329713)

Lets keep Ricardo out of this, He's a much better person than Jos will ever be.

Sato san · 8 Jul 2002, 20:17 (Ref:329716)

im sure he is , i was on about driving skills , that all.

El_Gibleto · 8 Jul 2002, 20:23 (Ref:329728)

Purely on driving ability Jos was at best a lower mid grid driver of limited technical ability and was a liability in PR term out of the car. Despite the sycophantic hero worship from some, many people in Holland and elsewhere realised that the true Jos was the arrogent and uncoperative.

R · 8 Jul 2002, 20:31 (Ref:329738)

Sadly, I remember Jos mainly for two incidents: His pitlane fire at Hockenheim in 94, and the way he rammed race leader Juan Pablo Montoya off the track in Brazil last year, robbing the Colombian of a sensational maiden win.

Jos' best results remained his two 3rd places for Benetton in 94 - the best drive he has ever had, in the car Michael Schumacher won his first world title with. But Jos was young and inexperienced then - two podiums are good in your debut season, and the cars may not have been equal either (!) - so I won't hold that against him. Problem is, he didn't prove himself later either. Quick with a light fuel load, yes, but when Bernoldi started outperforming him, that was "goodnight, Jos", and deservedly so.

Sato san · 9 Jul 2002, 10:10 (Ref:330054)

Quote:

Originally posted by El_Gibleto
Jos was a liability in PR term out of the car. .

i agree with that !...That buisness with Enrique really cost him dear .

The Accomplice · 9 Jul 2002, 10:22 (Ref:330064)

He is one of the most over-rated GP drivers of all time. He has done nothing and I have found it baffling what all the past hype has been about.

Mania · 9 Jul 2002, 11:09 (Ref:330085)

Ramming Montoya last year wasn neccesariy 100% his fault. I read reports that the Arrows team showed data to the press that suggested Montoya braked earlier which is what caught Jos of guard.

Anyway going back to Jos, I like him. He's a good driver and he's certainly had a lot of bad luck. Honda in some ways led him on - he was testing for them and did a great job - but they then forgot about running him once they no longer wanted to start their own team in F1. As a result, he went to Arrows - and Walkinshaw screwed him over as well.

Its gonna be tough for him to get back to F1...his only chance is if we get 3 car teams next season....in which case his experience will land him a good drive.

f1manoz · 9 Jul 2002, 11:25 (Ref:330098)

Frankly, I've never been that impressed by Jos. He sure can race hard, but too often he has an incident and, as someone mentioned, away from the circuit is what I'd term a loose cannon in terms of PR.

There are reasons why Jos has been dropped from his teams - he simply didn't stack up against his team-mate.

Mr V · 9 Jul 2002, 20:09 (Ref:330490)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mania
Ramming Montoya last year wasn neccesariy 100% his fault. I read reports that the Arrows team showed data to the press that suggested Montoya braked earlier which is what caught Jos of guard.

Didn't Williams show telementry stating that Montoya braked in the same place as everyother lap? Maybe it was Jos's lighter fuel load that caught him out!

Sato san · 10 Jul 2002, 07:54 (Ref:330792)

maybe it was just a mistake from Jos , anyway , Juan was the race leader for crying out loud ! Jos shouldnt have been as close that he couldnt aviod the accident .

DNQ · 10 Jul 2002, 08:12 (Ref:330813)

Arrows, 2000. Who was the better driver? PDRL or Jos?

HINT: It wasn't Jos...

kdr · 10 Jul 2002, 08:38 (Ref:330831)

and yet schuey rates him...

steve_r · 10 Jul 2002, 08:44 (Ref:330834)

Does Schuey rate him because he was 2 seconds per lap slower than him at Bennetton? Of all of MS's teammates, Jos made him look the best.

Despite that, I do beleive that he is good enough to drive for a mid-grid team, but if I were team manager I would try and sign a new and upcoming driver.

f1manoz · 10 Jul 2002, 09:41 (Ref:330879)

Steve_r makes a good point. Jos will now never be signed by a top three team, and the midfield teams are now either taking experienced, but proven, drivers or young up-and-coming drivers, and frankly Jos fits neither category. His time has passed.

kdr · 10 Jul 2002, 11:28 (Ref:330972)

then he'll be "racing for holland" this time next year

steve nielsen · 10 Jul 2002, 17:57 (Ref:331226)

Quote:

Originally posted by DNQ
Arrows, 2000. Who was the better driver? PDRL or Jos?

HINT: It wasn't Jos...

Jos 5 points, Pedro 2

Jos is so much better than you all think,and TGF rates him because Jos beats him regulary when they go karting together, and he's just a very nice guy(Just ask Pedro DLR, Mika Salo, Michael, Rubens or ANY of the mechanics he ever worked with) Harvey Postlewaite and Ken Tyrrell thought he was a very good driver as well.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Jos Verstappen to Minardi!!	steve nielsen	Formula One	125	18 Jan 2003 18:09
Verstappen at BAR?	Speed	Formula One	15	13 Dec 2002 23:32
Why is Verstappen still in F1?	Fiorentina 1	Formula One	21	2 Apr 2001 22:53
Verstappen the new bad boy?	Minardi fan	Formula One	6	24 May 2000 01:04