CAMS accountability

[djt46]

valet_dave it's a good job heretics are not still burned at the stake, you'd be a smouldering pile of ash by now!! Can't but agree that there seems little point in trying to change the CAMS system. The question is developing a serious and viable alternative, such as that supported by BAC and Bob Jane.

[cavvy]

Thanks for the input to date one & all - djt am I correct that members of clubs have no direct rights at national level, do they have rights at state level, e.g to call a meeting of members ...

[kramer]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Thanks for the input to date one & all - djt am I correct that members of clubs have no direct rights at national level, do they have rights at state level, e.g to call a meeting of members ...

Nup - as far as I know it can only be through a club's delegate. So the aggrieved member has to convince their delegate, who has to convince another club's delegate to second it - and I don't know whether there's a procedure in place for calling extraordinary meetings - but I don't imagine it would be all that easy.

And as was pointed out above - sometimes the delegates are acting on their own, whether through apathy from their club and its committee, or through being a maverick, or some combination of the two or any number of other factors.

I just wanna race - I've done my turn in the committee / State Council barrel.




Kramer

[djt46]

kramer beat me to it but that's your answer as far as I know, you have to get two delegates to take it forward and like they are going to do anything to incur the wrath of the Dark Lords!

[hml2777]

Ah CAMS, the FAI sanctioned body.

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by hml2777

Ah CAMS, the FAI sanctioned body.

Clearly the rogue Insurance Company is still trading in Guantanamo Bay.

Do they still sponsor the local 1000 km touring car race too Henry ? ? ?

[Matthew Ronke]

Well it gets more interesting

I recieved this email last night after some one had read this thread.

Matthew,

Are/were you aware of this in NSW?

<start>
As you may (or may not) be aware, the NSW State Elections were re-held around the 2nd wek of May after the resignation of Bob Cutler. Bob had been elected NSW Director at last years meeting (Oct or Dec - can't recall the exact date now.

As background - Bob Cutler was elected late last year by a clear majority on the first ballot defeating Andrew Papadopolous.

The alternate delegate (I can't recall his name) (Emerton) was elected on the second ballot - the first was a tie so, according to the NWS rules, a second ballot was then held where the election was made by a 2 vote majority (IOW one vote changed).

>From my informaiton, Cutlers election did not go down too well with
>some in
National Office - in fact my information is that National Office attempted to force the NSW State Council to 'examine the election' for any 'inconsistencies' and audit the votes. NSW refused to do so standing by the election.

National Office then did their own audit of the votes or clubs at the elction and claimed that one club which voted was not entitled to vote - therefore the election for the Alternate Delegate was invalid - as the vote was won by a single vote the outcome could have been different IF this club had not been entitled to vote in the first place. The Delegates vote was considered OK as the majority was by more than 1 (believe it was by 3). Therefore National Office ordered a new election to take place for an Alternate Delegate.

Bob was, in the meantime, again as I have been informed, put under a lot of pressure and harassment by certain people from Melbourne to the point where he resigned earlier this year - however, he only resigned verbally - he NEVER put the resignation in writing.

Nethercote was obviously aware of the legal ramifications of this and phone Cutler on at least two occasions asking for th resignation in writing - Bob never did so - he felt his verbal resignation to the State Council was sufficient.

As the vote for the Alternate Delegate was coming up the supposedly vacant position of Delegate was also placed on the ballot and Papadopolous stood again and won.

However - this then brought to light the fact that the CAMS Constitution requires a resignation to be in writing (which never happened).

The CAMS Consitution states the following:

42. Vacation of Office of Director
(a) The office of a Director (including the President) shall be automatically vacated if the Director:
(i) becomes bankrupt; or
(ii) becomes of unsound mind or a person whose person or estate is liable to be dealt with in any way under the law relating to mental health; or
(iii) resigns from office by written notice to CAMS at its registered office; or
(iv) becomes prohibited from being a director by virtue of the Act; or
(v) accepts remuneration, payment or other benefits, other than prize money from CAMS other than in accordance with this Constitution; or
(vi) is disqualified or suspended under the NCR (for the period of such disqualification or suspension); or
(vii) is directly or indirectly interested in any contract or proposed contract with CAMS and fails to declare the nature of the interest in the manner required by this Constitution; or
(viii) is removed by Special Resolution; or
(ix) dies.

Notice sub-section (iii).

Bob Cutler received at least one phone call from Rob Nethercote asking him to put his resignation in writing (Bob resigned at a State Council meeting but NEVER put it in writing - it was minuted at the State Council but didn't go any further.

Nethercote is obviously aware that he needed this in writing - now, not having received this piece of paper brings up a nice legal question - is Bob Cutler still a CAMS Director or not?

The general and quick answer is that yes, he is - there is no written resignation therefore he still holds the position - whether he attends meetings or not....

CAMS could declare his position vacant:

(b) The position of Elected Director may be declared vacant by a meeting of the State Council which elected him, subject to notice of intention to so move having been presented to an ordinary meeting of that State Council and having subsequently been promulgated to all Affiliated Clubs at least four weeks prior to the next State Council meeting at which the motion is to be considered and subject to a resolution being passed by at least 75% of the Affiliated Clubs in that State Council area represented in person at that meeting by their nominated representative entitled to vote.

but, as I understand it, so far have not taken this course - therefore, Bob would still, legally, be their Director.

But - it now gets a little murkier.

Appears that CAMS have removed Bob from the list of Directors lodged with ASIC without this letter of resignation - how does this stand under Company Law?

So - who is the current NSW Delegate? Papadopolous or Bob Cutler. The letter of the law and the CAMS Constitution would have to say Bob Cutler.

A very interesting mine field has been entered by CAMS.... <finish>

After reading this I would suggest it adds more weight to the idea that CAMS uses the Australian Electoral Commission to oversee voting at Elections.

[djt46]

matthew,
I have the same info from the same source, no doubt, a few days ago.
Very interesting indeed.

[hml2777]

Sorry, should have been FIA

[mixxer]

So all the problems with CAMS are really just that the delegates (that we elect) believe the issues being raised are not poignant enough to be taken any further.

[djt46]

Not really i think the delegates become trapped in a system that discourages leadership and individualism, seeks to reinforce the entrenched views of a very tightly held management and as a resulte the are reluctant, unwilling to take the issues of the membership forweard because they know they will receive little or no support and leave themselves open to isolation and eventual moves to have them removed, ie the incident detailed above by Matthew Ronke in relation to a candidate that was felt to be " unsuitable" by the CAMS admin!
That story above, which I heard about a couple of weeks ago is outrageous.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ronke

(ii) becomes of unsound mind

Well that would exclude anyone involved in motorsport from even standing for a position wouldn't it, no one in their right mind would be involved in a "sport" like this

[silver 2]

It highlights the need for change. The incumbents and hired hands will oversee the collapse of the CAMS system if they are incapable of changing direction .The total dismissal of ideas different to that groups short sighted direction guarantees that all alternatives will be examined.The irony that I see is that many that have been stong supporters of the CAMS system are amongst the most dissaffected .

[silver 2]

If this thread dissappears how are the people at CAMS going to spend their days?

[cavvy]

Do CAMS get direct federal funding?
Would an independent assessment of the CAMS electoral process deem it to be fair, because to me it is not, but the counter is that motorsport gets what it supports?

[djt46]

Funding is a good question, Not sure. They do get some sort of funding from the AIS for driver programs, direct support from the Government, don't know, it's possible they get money from the Dept of Sport

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by djt46

Funding is a good question, Not sure. They do get some sort of funding from the AIS for driver programs, direct support from the Government, don't know, it's possible they get money from the Dept of Sport

DiJiT, nice, try extracting it sometime......







CAMS receive a fair amount of folding from the government, via the Australian Sports Commission, hence the following of the WADA code to the absolute letter of the law.

Why else would you suspend a club competitor for three months, when found with traces of marijuana in his system at a Vic Hillclimb Round.

http://www.cams.com.au/content.asp?PageID=Article&ObjectID=583



Now I don't condone drug use, especially in events as dangerous as Motorsport (check the back of your ticket sometime) but to effectively penalise this bloke for 6 months, [late Feb-Sept] for what is potentially a substance, consumed in the days or weeks prior to his positive test, is proof that unlike the AFL, CAMS are more than happy to take every free penny on offer.



I note with interest, there was no mention of any of the following...

Admission of guilt, if any; Recommendations regarding counselling; The fact that the substance is not performance enhancing, and there is more leniency in available penalties;





It seems that the common link in this whole topic is similarity of two simple words.





CAMS,



And



DOPE......








P.S. when does testing start at Dandenong Rd Malvern.......

[djt46]

The website does acknowledge AG funding through the Australian Sports Commission which funds a number of CAMS programs such as Rising Stars.
What other funding they get, if any, is a bit of a mystery

[DAVID PATERSON]

CAMS Qld Office gets considerable assistance from the Qld Govt.

I believe the Official's licensing system was a requirement for Federal Govt. funding.

[1200Datto27]

Supposedly at $2500 each official per annum.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by 1200Datto27

Supposedly at $2500 each official per annum.

State or Federal Govt ??

[1200Datto27]

Feds, National training scheme, or something like that.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by 1200Datto27

Supposedly at $2500 each official per annum.

Gee that $2500 would go along way towards paying for the 40 odd events I attend per year (mind you about 15 would be CAMS sanctioned, the rest would be AASA, MA & NASR sanctioned).

What, I don't get to see it. Damn..............

[275 GTB-4]

I was thinking exactly the same thing Pee Vee Dee.....most of the money would go to running the bureaucracy....

quite sad really because most officials (and competitors) could certainly use an injection of funds to supplement the high costs involved with "voluntering" or competing...