[LM24 Race] • 24hrs of Le Mans • June, 6th – 13th 2010

[Victor_RO]

One thing I would like to say about this race, looking at the causes for the major retirements in 1971, when the previous distance record was set...

You can literally substitute the blown Pugs with the Gulf 917LHs which all retired with engine-related ailments, and the three Audis with the two 917Ks which finished a huge distance ahead of the rest of the field, and you'd get a similar picture in terms of results and mechanical attrition.

[manthey]

i'm happy for Audi! a big demostration how reability is the key factor in 24h race

[skeeskirrt]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The post Le Mans press release of Audi reveals a secret: the V10 TDI was fitted with a Variable Turbine Geometry (VTG) turbocharger. That explains why they managed to improve the power and torque.

Perhaps Peugeot uses this as well, but they can not brag about it like Audi

I believe that last year Audi also had a new turbo, whereas the Peugeot did not.

[Slowsley]

Not a bad 2010 so far for Rocky!

[tlongman]

Has anyone heard any update on the condition of the SPEED cameraman that was hit by the Audi in the pits yesterday? Someone caught it on video and posted it to youtube. Seriously scary hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ozgo...yo&feature=sub

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by tlongman

Has anyone heard any update on the condition of the SPEED cameraman that was hit by the Audi in the pits yesterday? Someone caught it on video and posted it to youtube. Seriously scary hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ozgo...yo&feature=sub

That was scary; that happened so quickly.

[porsche91722]

Everyone has a different view on the race, depending on which side of the fence you sit, however, I thought it was fantastic.
Other than the last hour or so, when the result was pretty much beyond doubt, it was great theatre. Peugeot just extracted that extra little bit out of those diesels than they were designed to do, and then they all went went into meltdown in succession. That German precision and patience was evident again.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by tlongman

Has anyone heard any update on the condition of the SPEED cameraman that was hit by the Audi in the pits yesterday? Someone caught it on video and posted it to youtube. Seriously scary hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ozgo...yo&feature=sub

That is really scary to see. Someone, you could see, was trying to move him out of the way but it all happened too fast.

Bryan Sellers - whose wife the cameraman was filming for - said on RLM that as far as he knew, the injuries were fairly serious but it certainly was not clear if the condition was in any way critical.

[fieldodreams79]

i had heard about the cameraman getting hit in the pits but just now saw it; just sickening. i hope that he gets better, but that looked pretty awful.

while i didn't notice it personally, i heard the speed guys and/or rlm guys mention several close calls with media persons on pit lane during this race; sure it happens more often that i think. i love the close coverage of this particular brand of motorsport; it makes you feel like you are right there with them, but it seems that things have gotten a little out of hand, crazy and congested there in pit lane.

i know there are a few "media types" here that have been down on pit road during a race (maybe or maybe not at LM) and some others who have been working on the cars there too; maybe they have some first hand experiences with this, but there has got to be a good balance of safety, competition and coverage.

best wishes to the injured cameraman and his fam.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The post Le Mans press release of Audi reveals a secret: the V10 TDI was fitted with a Variable Turbine Geometry (VTG) turbocharger. That explains why they managed to improve the power and torque.

Perhaps Peugeot uses this as well, but they can not brag about it like Audi

Peugeot used Variable Turbine Geometry turbos too... they were either working or blown up, that is the variable

[Slowsley]

Speaking of media coverage, I enjoyed this race so much, a lot of it in thanks to all of you. Switching between the forum, SpeedTv (not much), Eurosport online, RLM, Audi's onboards, Sirius radio, and Facebook (had a couple of friends in the race) for 24 hours made for quite an interesting "journey" from my couch. After reading earlier in the week about how some of you in the '70's (I think) didn't even get to hear who won until 2 days later, I felt pretty darn lucky yesterday to live in the time in which I do. The living room was a media spectacle, and I'm sure I was way behind, technologically speaking, a lot of folks. I hope all of you very much enjoyed yourselves as well. My 4 favorite hollidays are in order as follows: 24 Hours of Le Mans, Sebring, Petit Le Mans, and Christmas. A very special thanks to who ever it was that posted Audi's onboard link around page 65 or so! I made it awake the entire 24!

[Slowsley]

Speaking of media coverage, I enjoyed this race so much, a lot of it in thanks to all of you. Switching between the forum, SpeedTv (not much), Eurosport online, RLM, Audi's onboards, Sirius radio, and Facebook (had a couple of friends in the race) for 24 hours made for quite an interesting "journey" from my couch. After reading earlier in the week about how some of you in the '70's (I think) didn't even get to hear who won until 2 days later, I felt pretty darn lucky yesterday to live in the time in which I do. The living room was a media spectacle, and I'm sure I was way behind, technologically speaking, a lot of folks. I hope all of you very much enjoyed yourselves as well. My 4 favorite hollidays are in order as follows: 24 Hours of Le Mans, Sebring, Petit Le Mans, and Christmas. A very special thanks to who ever it was that posted Audi's onboard link around page 65 or so! I made it awake the entire 24!

[R4z3rw33n]

I really enjoyed this years race. The 22.5 hours of close racing for the overall lead was spectacular. GT2 was little underwhelming at first but, watcing the #77 crew take class honours was absolutely fantastic (something I thought I may never get to see).

The lack of technical issues (despite some minor/temporary reliability woes with T&S/RLM) made for another enjoyable experience (and I was only viewing from a couch).
Only another 364 days until we get to do it all over again.

[Victor_RO]

Any updates on the reason why the #15 Kolles Audi retired out on track? Looked very much like it simply ran out of fuel...

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Peugeot used Variable Turbine Geometry turbos too... they were either working or blown up, that is the variable

Audi and Peugeot use the same Garrett turbos ! Apart from the technical environment around them, how to explain the difference ? No one broke on a Peugeot before.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Audi and Peugeot use the same Garrett turbos ! Apart from the technical environment around them, how to explain the difference ? No one broke on a Peugeot before.

I was merely making light of the heartbreak inside Peugeot...

Had they held together, the #1 car was a genuine shot at 2nd, if not 1st!

[CTD]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I was merely making light of the heartbreak inside Peugeot...

Had they held together, the #1 car was a genuine shot at 2nd, if not 1st!

Had they held the #2 would have stayed in the lead and won!?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Audi and Peugeot use the same Garrett turbos ! Apart from the technical environment around them, how to explain the difference ? No one broke on a Peugeot before.

The last 3 years Audi and Peugeot indeed used the same Garrett TR30R turbo. This year Audi used VTG turbos, presumably developed in collaboration with Garrett.

Clearly Peugeot was using some new parts on their engine as well. According to Henri Pescarolo, the engine produce 20 bhp more than last, with the new restrictions! In the past years, they never had these spectacular engine failures. So it seem very likely that they also used the VTG turbo.

All 3 engines blew on the out lap after a pitstop. When the car stands stationary in the pits, the engine and turbo temperature go up because there is no air to cool things down. Audi redesigned the cooling system of the R15. They did not trust the VTG turbo completely because the press release mentions:

In 2010 the demands made on diesel engines were particularly high due to the restrictions imposed by the regulations. “Squeezing higher output out of the engines without sacrificing reliability posed a great challenge which our team mastered in an outstanding manner,” said Head of Audi Motorsport Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich after the race. “We did not use the full potential of the V10 TDI engine this year in order to be absolutely on the safe side. That’s why it was clear to us even before the race that we wouldn’t have the fastest car – but a very reliable and efficient one.

Perhaps the cooling of the 908 was okay for a regular turbo, but too marginal for the new VTG turbo.

Of course all this is guess work from my part.

[Victor_RO]

^ That sounds like some very reasonable assumptions, to be honest.

Another technical snippet from an interview with every Corvette fan's worst nightmare... about the tires:

The Michelin boys tell me I set a record for their tyres during that quadruple stint. All four average laptimes for each stint were quicker than last year's pole time, and in the 3m21s bracket. They had never done that many laps, that fast for such a long period of time. My last lap was a 3m20.4s or something...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84506

So that's one set of racing tires, that ran a massive(in racing terms) 700 kilometers, and delivered devastatingly consistently fast laptimes for all those 700 km. Just shows the advances in tire technology that sportscar racing produces.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The last 3 years Audi and Peugeot indeed used the same Garrett TR30R turbo. This year Audi used VTG turbos, presumably developed in collaboration with Garrett.

Clearly Peugeot was using some new parts on their engine as well. According to Henri Pescarolo, the engine produce 20 bhp more than last, with the new restrictions! In the past years, they never had these spectacular engine failures. So it seem very likely that they also used the VTG turbo.

All 3 engines blew on the out lap after a pitstop. When the car stands stationary in the pits, the engine and turbo temperature go up because there is no air to cool things down. Audi redesigned the cooling system of the R15. They did not trust the VTG turbo completely because the press release mentions:

Perhaps the cooling of the 908 was okay for a regular turbo, but too marginal for the new VTG turbo.

Of course all this is guess work from my part.

I just have seen the pictures, it seems that the engines had failures in the three cases ; I'm not sure that a turbo broke down.

Peugeot did many hours of training, including normal pit stops, and nothing occured then.

Of course, only Peugeot will determine precisely what happened with the telemetry datas. But indeed we can think that scraping several more hp could have weaken the engines. Let's wait the technical investigations.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

I just have seen the pictures, it seems that the engines had failures in the three cases ; I'm not sure that a turbo broke down.

Peugeot did many hours of training, including normal pit stops, and nothing occured then.

Of course, only Peugeot will determine precisely what happened with the telemetry datas. But indeed we can think that scraping several more hp could have weaken the engines. Let's wait the technical investigations.

Which will never be published

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

I just have seen the pictures, it seems that the engines had failures in the three cases ; I'm not sure that a turbo broke down.

Peugeot did many hours of training, including normal pit stops, and nothing occured then.

According to Davidson (in this interview) Peugeot did three 30-hour endurance tests with exactly the same engine configuration, and it was bullet proof.

Also when Montagny blew the first engine, he was in the lead "cruising" around and the air temperatue was quite low (7 am in the morning).

So in the end, this was massive bad luck for Peugeot.

[Speedblood]

Hi Guys

I've returned from my first visit to the Sarthe. I won't rant on about how the camping and journey experience wasn't at all enjoyable but at least the on track activity was something to keep my mind to!

Some observations from the race.

Diesel vs Petrol- NEEDS to be sorted. I don't care if we need a petrol factory car to prove if it's working. When Mucke was chasing Mcnish in the night the Audi was not even trying, Mucke was all over the track and thrashing the car. On the twistier stuff, fair enough, the lola/aston chassis is not maybe quite as good but coming out of any slow/medium speed bend the peugeots and audi's gain such a lead.

I'm gutted for the drivers of the two peugeots near the end. We could have had a grandstand finish but sadly for me and some of the fans where I was watching, it was not to be. Seeing both Quesnel and De Chaunac crying made it finally click to me how much it meant to them. Even though I wanted a petrol winner and all the diesels to self destruct, deep down I do sympathise.

The Davidson pass on the vette was a bit crude but as far as I saw, but what was he gonna do? Sit and back off? While some will say justice was almost served in a way I would rather see a car charging to try and win the race than back off. I wanted the 2 peugeots near the end to catch the Audi's so we would of had a sprint to the flag. Seriously who wouldn't want to see that! Hindsight is a beautiful thing but for all those people who are calling Davidson evil, I ask you to be put in the last remaining factory Peugeots car and be asked to go flat out as you may well be there last hope for winning. Of course he was going to be a bit arrogant when he got out of the car, that's racing driver mentality, he has the whole racing fraternity asking why he caused a leading GT2 car to crash. Hindhaugh's comments saying "why does he think that his race is more important than GT2's?" Well in a way it is. Everyone is much more interested in the outright win. Even silly tabloid sports articles are not going to display "GT2 corvette win ruined by someone trying to win outright race"
* I'm definitely not putting any blame to Collard, it was just plain unfortunate for him.

Sorry for the rant but I feel too much blame was put at him for speaking his mind in a very delicate situation. Racing drivers make mistakes. Let's leave it at that. As an aside, I felt that the performance that Ant, Marc and Alex did was amazing and for a fan not keen on the diesel domination, it was spectacular to watch.


GT2 battle- WOW! At one point #63 and #82 were swapping places it seemed every lap. It was such a shame that it ended in disappointing fashion. I felt the hankook car deserved it's result most of all. Not taking anything from Felbermayer of course. Terrible for the Jag but sadly not suprising. To be fair there final qualifying time was definitely heading in the right direction.

GT1- I for one was glad the class was there. Many people I was surrounded by were excited by the sights and sounds of the Saleen, Ford and Lambo in particular. In GT2 the only cars people seemed excited about were the Vantage, Vette and Jag. Though the Spyker fans were funny to be around!
I also gave JLOC a little cheer everytime they came past during the race. No embarrassment for them this time though at least.

LMP2- Just shows like the RS Spyder the last couple of years that highly developed cars in a closer class are going to be more dominant. While not taking anything away from Highcroft and Strakka who in particular were outstanding. 5th Overall was no were near undeserved. I just wish we had an RS Spyder or two for competition. Last year I'm sure we would of all loved an Acura or two in the race.

LMP1 petrol- Big big shame that there were no Pescarolo's as one would of (or should of) finished in the top 5. My most gutted moment was seeing the #009 crawl to a halt. Such a good run ruined right in the last hour. Considering Barazi being a gentleman driver and a couple of little slips it was a fantastic race up til then. Sam Hancock I thought was very impressive. Shame for the Rebellions as I had them down as a dark horse for a top 6. The ORECA AIM was a curious one. I expected it to easily be best of the rest behind the Aston's but it kept going on and off the radar so to speak. Didn't get much mention on the radio when I was listening. Anyone got any ideas?

I wasn't quite able to work out the safety car scenario but I think every one was quick to slate it because it was that early in the race and separated the Pugs and Audi's early. Other things that disappointed me were some of the commentators reactions. Some were adamant some people were to blame, and some were quick to defend others. Now I'll be honest and say I didn't have the best viewing and information they had but 3 or 4 of the people I heard I felt let there personal opinions* get in the way.

* Anyway this is of course all my personal opinion.

Will I return to Le Mans? I hope so, but sadly too many downsides to warrant a return, certainly in the near future.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

According to Davidson (in this interview) Peugeot did three 30-hour endurance tests with exactly the same engine configuration, and it was bullet proof.

Also when Montagny blew the first engine, he was in the lead "cruising" around and the air temperatue was quite low (7 am in the morning).

So in the end, this was massive bad luck for Peugeot.

I don't think the sinking of Peugeot has is linked only with luck (i.e. MTBF, probabilities etc.). Something went wrong with the preparation or the methods between the training and the real race. I think they were too much well prepared to speak about chance.

[Slowsley]

Originally Posted by Speedblood

Hi Guys

The Davidson pass on the vette was a bit crude but as far as I saw, but what was he gonna do? Sit and back off? While some will say justice was almost served in a way I would rather see a car charging to try and win the race than back off. I wanted the 2 peugeots near the end to catch the Audi's so we would of had a sprint to the flag. Seriously who wouldn't want to see that! Hindsight is a beautiful thing but for all those people who are calling Davidson evil, I ask you to be put in the last remaining factory Peugeots car and be asked to go flat out as you may well be there last hope for winning. Of course he was going to be a bit arrogant when he got out of the car, that's racing driver mentality, he has the whole racing fraternity asking why he caused a leading GT2 car to crash. Hindhaugh's comments saying "why does he think that his race is more important than GT2's?" Well in a way it is. Everyone is much more interested in the outright win. Even silly tabloid sports articles are not going to display "GT2 corvette win ruined by someone trying to win outright race"
* I'm definitely not putting any blame to Collard, it was just plain unfortunate for him.

Sorry for the rant but I feel too much blame was put at him for speaking his mind in a very delicate situation. Racing drivers make mistakes. Let's leave it at that. As an aside, I felt that the performance that Ant, Marc and Alex did was amazing and for a fan not keen on the diesel domination, it was spectacular to watch.

Only going to respectfully disagree with you on whose race is more important. To the casual observer, only 1 car makes the headlines. There are no such people here. We care about the comitment, the work, dedication, r&d, funding, joy, and dispair of EVERY CAR OUT THERE. Every car, team, and person is a story to us. For example, how many Jimmie Johnson fans know who Lord Drayson is? Well, I for one have tremendous respect for what he does, his passion, forward thinking, and its types like him that make or sport what it is. Though he didn't make the scoring sheet at the end, I was thrilled to see that team overcome so much time in the pits and still be on the track at the checkered flag. That, to me, was a headline.

I will say that Davidson has taken a tremendous amount of flack for a split second decision. Most of us have no idea what that's like. His words seem to have made things much worse, but I have to whole heartedly agree with Hindy. Would you personally tell Corvette to their face, "well, yeah, in a way your race wasn't quite as important as Peugeot's"? Your money, time, passion, could theoretically be bought by the Pugs.