[LM24 Race] • 24hrs of Le Mans • June, 6th – 13th 2010

[Tim the Grey]

What did they change between Spa LMS, and LM24??? Spa, no sign of any issues, just a dominant win.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

What did they change between Spa LMS, and LM24??? Spa, no sign of any issues, just a dominant win.

They made the race 4 times longer and they made the straights quite a bit longer

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

What did they change between Spa LMS, and LM24??? Spa, no sign of any issues, just a dominant win.

Not what they have changed, but what changed. Definately time. From 6 to 24h duration and all engine breaks after the 12h mark.

[Victor_RO]

Regarding the Corvette retirements: is it official that the 64's engine failure happened as a consequence of the accident or was it the same failure that hit the 63 a few hours before?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Regarding the Corvette retirements: is it official that the 64's engine failure happened as a consequence of the accident or was it the same failure that hit the 63 a few hours before?

We will probably not be privy to that. But even if the failure was identical, who is to say that it was not a result of the off. The 63 had been in a trap earlier did it go in backwards putting stress on the drive train? Is that what caused the failure in both? I truly hope that we will find out, but....
Corvette will find the cause and eliminate it, so I suspect we will not see it happen again!




L.P.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

According to Davidson (in this interview) Peugeot did three 30-hour endurance tests with exactly the same engine configuration, and it was bullet proof.

Also when Montagny blew the first engine, he was in the lead "cruising" around and the air temperatue was quite low (7 am in the morning).

So in the end, this was massive bad luck for Peugeot.

Montagny's car #2 was the only that did 13 lap stint and it failed first. #1 and #4 failed while they tried to catch the Audis.
Strange ...

[Victor_RO]

64 came to a halt with smoke pouring from the left-hand exhaust, and when they showed 63 at the side of the road, there seemed to be a trail of fluid to its left (on-screen right), looking as if it had come from the left-hand exhaust as well. So it does look to me like a similar or even identical failure.

And HORNDAWG, you're right, we're talking about Pratt&Miller, the cause will be found and eradicated without a doubt.

[Speedblood]

Originally Posted by Slowsley

Only going to respectfully disagree with you on whose race is more important. To the casual observer, only 1 car makes the headlines. There are no such people here. We care about the comitment, the work, dedication, r&d, funding, joy, and dispair of EVERY CAR OUT THERE. Every car, team, and person is a story to us. For example, how many Jimmie Johnson fans know who Lord Drayson is? Well, I for one have tremendous respect for what he does, his passion, forward thinking, and its types like him that make or sport what it is. Though he didn't make the scoring sheet at the end, I was thrilled to see that team overcome so much time in the pits and still be on the track at the checkered flag. That, to me, was a headline.

I will say that Davidson has taken a tremendous amount of flack for a split second decision. Most of us have no idea what that's like. His words seem to have made things much worse, but I have to whole heartedly agree with Hindy. Would you personally tell Corvette to their face, "well, yeah, in a way your race wasn't quite as important as Peugeot's"? Your money, time, passion, could theoretically be bought by the Pugs.

Oh no of course, as a serious fan I full well know that everyone's race is important. I think everyone in the race deserves there chance. Maybe I worded it wrong. What I meant was there was probably more pressure on Ant to succeed as that's where the main focus lies to the general observer and public.
Of course I wouldn't tell Corvette because I know there just as passionate and committed as everyone else (I hope!) on the grid. The GT2 battle to me also is just as fascinating. Sorry if it sounded I came out saying LMP1 only matters.

[skeeskirrt]

Originally Posted by ger80

Montagny's car #2 was the only that did 13 lap stint and it failed first. #1 and #4 failed while they tried to catch the Audis.
Strange ...

Haven't looked at the data, but from my memory, I'm not sure #2 was cruising around at the time. I recall that about 30 or 60 minutes before the failure he was putting in some 3:20's. Could have been at the end of a stint, but to me, it seemed like they had unleashed the #2 at the time. Why I don't know, since they were leading.

[gwyllion]

Montagny claimed he was cruising: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84457

He said the engine failures came without warning, and that Peugeot had reassured the drivers that nothing they had done had contributed to the failures.

"You can't see anything. And even if you know it's coming, what can you do?" said Montagny. "Even if you push it's still going to be the same, because the pressure's still going to be the same inside the engine.

"That's what I asked straight away: 'is there anything I could've done to save the engine?' They said there was nothing. You could've done all the mapping you want, and for this problem it would've been the same."

Okay, you never know whether Peugeot drivers are telling the truth. At one stage in the beginning of the race Bourdais said that they were going flat out and the cars were doing 3:24s

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Montagny claimed he was cruising: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84457

Okay, you never know whether Peugeot drivers are telling the truth. At one stage in the beginning of the race Bourdais said that they were going flat out and the cars were doing 3:24s

Flatout ... with full tanks

[Dunlop Corner]

According to ACO, these were the laptimes on the #2's final stint:
24.0
21.6
23.5
21.6
21.1
22.0
25.8
22.0
24.4
25.2
31.1 (inlap, failed right out of the pits)

That certainly does not look like cruising to me. Maybe not running flatout, but he was surely putting the hammer down.

Also the Peugout failures were not completely identical. #2 and #4 failed right out of the pits, which flames from the exhaust and seizure. #1 failed some 7 laps into his stint, had only smoke and was able to return to the pits. So not entirely similar.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by skeeskirrt

Haven't looked at the data, but from my memory, I'm not sure #2 was cruising around at the time. I recall that about 30 or 60 minutes before the failure he was putting in some 3:20's. Could have been at the end of a stint, but to me, it seemed like they had unleashed the #2 at the time. Why I don't know, since they were leading.

The last lap times of #2 in comparison with the #1:
lap 230: 4:46.124 (fuel+tyres) 3:23.650
lap 231: 3:23.053 3:28.883
lap 232: 3:22.795 4:12.540 (fuel)
lap 233: 3:26.464 3:24.145
lap 234: 3:24.315 3:24.752
lap 235: 3:23.721 3:23.170
lap 236: 3:25.934 3:26.886
lap 237: 3:21.291 3:23.178
lap 238: 3:21.477 3:23.156
lap 239: 3:25.918 3:25.600
lap 240: 3:20.943 3:32.211
lap 241: 3:29.460 4:55.492 (fuel+tyres)
lap 242: 4:18.514 (fuel) 3:23.909
lap 243: 3:23.160 3:27.493
lap 244: 3:24.503 3:23.652
lap 245: 3:24.823 3:24.547
lap 246: 3:25.214 3:22.777
lap 247: 3:25.652 3:25.249
lap 248: 3:26.120 3:26.684
lap 249: 3:29.742 3:23.233
lap 250: 3:21.741 3:22.802
lap 251: 3:21.182 3:21.608
lap 252: 3:27.583 3:28.697
lap 253: 4:47.089 (fuel+tyres) 4:18.174 (fuel)
lap 254: 3:23.962 3:24.391
lap 255: 3:21.573 3:23.026
lap 256: 3:23.519 3:22.923
lap 257: 3:21.607 3:23.385
lap 258: 3:21.164 3:23.980
lap 259: 3:22.024 3:21.972
lap 260: 3:25.808 3:21.225
lap 261: 3:22.018 3:22.723
lap 262: 3:24.444 3:23.155
lap 263: 3:25.213 3:22.522
lap 264: 3:31.281 3:27.322 (in lap)

Montagny definately upped his pace at lap 250.

[ger80]

but why?

[boesel]

hi everybody,
at this address more than 50 photos devoted to friday driver parade:
http://www.connectingrod.it/LeMans24hours/2010_eng.html

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by ger80

but why?

Not sure, but during the Montagny's last stint the Audi #9 was putting in a some decent lap times as well:
lap 246: 4:48.180
lap 247: 3:27.735
lap 248: 3:25.132
lap 249: 3:24.367
lap 250: 3:26.097
lap 251: 3:23.799
lap 252: 3:24.077
lap 253: 3:23.013
lap 254: 3:23.189
lap 255: 3:24.995
lap 256: 3:22.461
lap 257: 3:32.590 (in lap)
lap 258: 4:19.751 (fuel)
lap 259: 3:23.838
lap 260: 3:22.642
lap 261: 3:22.617
lap 262: 3:23.608
lap 263: 3:22.885
lap 264: 3:22.282

The numbers suggest that the Audi improved its pace as a response to Montagny pushing.

[Dunlop Corner]

Or maybe the Audis just got quicker. TK mentioned that the Audis were setup a little soft and with a little understeer at the beginning of the race. Then when the track rubbered in, the setup would be better. Audi wanted to be fast in the second part of the race, and i think this is what happened. When the track came to Audi and they got faster, Peugeut had to up their pace. And as we found out, there was a reason for Peugout not going all out early in the race.

The laptimes certianly suggests that Montagny was not taking it easy.

[cmk]

A statement - political or not we don't know - from Pagenaud suggests that in general, the track rubbering in increased pace and they could not do their quick times earlier in the race either. I suspect it was a little bit of doublespeak, but then again de Chaunac also claimed that they did not expect the car to blow up on them given the telemetry. Both indicate Peugeot do not admit to thinking pace was related to the engine issue.

I think that makes de Chaunac's reaction to #4 going out all the more poignant for its honest shock and dismay. It gives a real impression of how much teams put into the effort physically and emotionally; soon after he was just completely drained, his head propped up on Olivier Panis' shoulder.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Montagny definately upped his pace at lap 250.

Looking at the times, I would say the significant upping of pace was in his stint that began with the stop on Lap 253. Before that he was quick near the end of the stints, into the 3:21s on light fuel. Maybe some of it comes with new tyres, because he was quick though more inconsistent after his previous tyre stops, but on that final full stint he was quick from the get-go with a full fuel load, really setting quick times on every lap. He was not loafing around too badly.

I also agree that #2 and #4 had very similar issues, given the similar sheets of flame and instant loss of power, and the fact that both occurred on outlaps. To me they did seem like a turbo failure. #1 definitely did not display the same symptoms; it looked to me more like it lost a bank of cylinders.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by cmk

#1 definitely did not display the same symptoms; it looked to me more like it lost a bank of cylinders.

I actually forgot that Wurz managed to get the car to the pits and it retired in the box. However, I really think the #1 experienced the same failure: the problem occured on the right side of the car and the failure was terminal.

His car was heavily leaking oil when it entered the pits. Maybe he was just lucky that the oil did not spray onto the hot exhaust and that the car did not caught fire. Perhaps an oil line came loose on all 3 cars during the pitstop.

[The Badger]

Ok Ayse ..... never thought I would say it but ..... yhose BMW's were not very impressive , and sounded terrible for a V8 .

Shamefull thing ..... should be in the WTCC with that yoke , but the art car looked nice I thought .

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I actually forgot that Wurz managed to get the car to the pits and it retired in the box. However, I really think the #1 experienced the same failure: the problem occured on the right side of the car and the failure was terminal.

His car was heavily leaking oil when it entered the pits. Maybe he was just lucky that the oil did not spray onto the hot exhaust and that the car did not caught fire. Perhaps an oil line came loose on all 3 cars during the pitstop.

It was explained to me that , the left side got more cooling during the pit stops , due to being more open to cooler air . It only took a very small increase in oil temp for it to burn and carbonise the inside of the pipe , which led to massive turbo explosions on all 3 cars .

Im still in shock !!!

[gwyllion]

FYI http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/event...f-Le-Mans.html

[cmk]

Originally Posted by The Badger

It was explained to me that , the left side got more cooling during the pit stops , due to being more open to cooler air . It only took a very small increase in oil temp for it to burn and carbonise the inside of the pipe , which led to massive turbo explosions on all 3 cars .

Im still in shock !!!

Is this related to the position which the Peugeots were pulling into their pit stall? Someone guesting on RLM - I think it was Lawrence Tomlinson or Johnny Mowlem - pointed out that the Pugs were all pulling in with the right side flush to the white line marking the edge of the garage and the beginning of the pit box. The suggestion was that the right side tyre changers were thus behind the white line the whole time they worked on the tyre, meaning that once they were disengaged from the wheel another person was instantly free to move out and work on anything else on the car. Did this come back and bite them in the arse?!

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by cmk

Is this related to the position which the Peugeots were pulling into their pit stall? Someone guesting on RLM - I think it was Lawrence Tomlinson or Johnny Mowlem - pointed out that the Pugs were all pulling in with the right side flush to the white line marking the edge of the garage and the beginning of the pit box. The suggestion was that the right side tyre changers were thus behind the white line the whole time they worked on the tyre, meaning that once they were disengaged from the wheel another person was instantly free to move out and work on anything else on the car. Did this come back and bite them in the arse?!

Not sure, seemed to me like all the fast protos were stopping close to the white line and every major team did the "dance of the 14 mechanics" in a similar way, particularly the tire changes on the right-hand side.