Cooper T51

[henk4]

Here is the Piece de Resistance of the Cooper threads, the REALLY successful cars.
Lets Start with listing the Cooper Chassis records, as presented by Doug Nye in his annex.
What follows next are the shots of chassis currently in action and the number under which they appear. Most of the times I got a shot of the chassis plate, which as has been pointed out before is not a guarantee that that car is indeed the one it suggesting to be. That's to be found out. Here's the list to start with. I did not add the FPF engine numbers, could always be done later if required. It should also be noted that although the Cooper records switch from using F2 to FII, this is hardly shown on the chassis plate, so I stuck with the numbers that I saw.

Cooper T51/T53 (MkIV/MkVI)

Cooper’s Chassis records (Source Doug Nye)

F2/1/59 BRP Borgward
F2/2/59 BRP Borgward
F2/3/59 Nixon (UK) FPF
F2/4/59 Works Car 2 FPF
F2/5/59 Taylor (UK) FPF
F2/6/59 Owen (UK) FPF
F2/7/59 Works Car 3 FPF
F2/8/59 Gibson-Jarvie FPF
F2/9/59 Stasse (Bel) FPF
F2/10/59 Stasse (Bel) FPF
F2/11/59 Twisk (UK) FPF
FII/12/59 Dei (It) No engine
FII/13/59 Dei (It) No Engine
FII/14/59 Victa Ind(Au) FPF
FII/15/59 Patterson (Au) No engine
FII/16/59 Hall (Au) No Engine
FII/17/59 Schell (Fr) FPF
FII/18/59 Hamilton (Au) FPF
FII/19/59 R. Walker(Uk)FPF
FII/20/59 S. Jones (Au) FPF
FII/21/59 Cabral (Pt) FPF
F2/22/59 Mildren (au) No Engine
FII/23/59 Tuck (UK) No Engine
FII/24/59 Yeoman Cr. No Engine
FII/25/59 Yeoman Cr. No Engine
FII/26/59 Yeoman Cr. No Engine
FII/27/59 Works Car 4 No Engine
FII/28/59 SA PTE (SA) FPF

I assume the above number are all T51s.

FII/1/60 Pringle (UK) FPF
FII/2/60 Scarlatti (it) No Engine
FII/3/60 ENB (Bel) FPF
FII/4/60 Surtees (UK) FPF
FII/5/60 Works Car 1 FPF (T53 Lowline?)
FII/6/60 Burgess (UK) No Engine
FII/7/60 S. Jones (Au) FPF
FII/8/60 Works Car 2 FPF (T 53 Lowline?)
FII/9/60 Youl (Au) FPF
FII/10/60 de Beaufort FPF
FII/11/60 Adda (Swi) FPF
FII/12/60 Works Car 3 FPF (T53 Lowline?)
FII/13/60 Corini (it) No Engine
FII/14/60 Armbruster No Engine
FII/15/60 McAlister FPF
FII/16/60 APAG (SA) No Engine
FII/17/60 Brabham No Engine

[henk4]

some more cars
Please note that F2/13/60 runs with an Alfa engine, and has a badge Cooper Castelotti, which should make it F2/13/59, but the plate says 60.
The Yeoman Credit car is one of the three, and I don't know which one.

[henk4]

Before somebody comes up with it, the very first pic is not F2/3/59. It clearly is a lowline, that was shown during the pre-historics in 2008, but not at the Historics itself. I have shots of a car with plate F2-3-59, taken at the same day, but I am still searching in my pictures what car was behind that numebr

[David McKinney]

Pieter -
Is it too late to suggest that this thread be split?
T43, T45 and T51 Coopers were all similar
The T53 "lowline" was quite different

On your list, incidentally, the three you have queried are indeed T53s

[allenbrown]

I believe FII/17/60 was also a lowline.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by David McKinney

Pieter -
Is it too late to suggest that this thread be split?
T43, T45 and T51 Coopers were all similar
The T53 "lowline" was quite different

On your list, incidentally, the three you have queried are indeed T53s

Well, on the basis of Doug's interpretation of Type number and years of build of each model I have kept the T51 and T53 together. We could call the thread the "1960" thread if that is more clear.

The three cars were I put the Lowline question mark, are those that I have personally seen. F2-17-60 is not one of them, so I have no reason to doubt that that is also a lowline.

I think it is also of some interest to see which chassis continued in the Formula Libre with 2.5 litres, and which were re-engined (if any) for the 1,5 litre F1 class.

[allenbrown]

Pieter

The point you must remember here is that the terms T51 and T53 were introduced years later and I have found no contemporary reference to them. The 1959/60 car was called the Mark IV and the 1960 works cars were simply called Lowlines. It was a completely different design. The chassis numbering system has no bearing at all on this.

The 1959 cars and the 1960 customer cars belong together but the 1960 works cars belong with the 1961 customer cars.

[allenbrown]

By the way, have you seen the T53 page I did some years ago?

http://www.oldracingcars.com/Projects/Cooper-T53.htm

It's many years since I did any serious work on that page.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

By the way, have you seen the T53 page I did some years ago?

http://www.oldracingcars.com/Projects/Cooper-T53.htm

It's many years since I did any serious work on that page.

No Allen, I haven't. But knowing that you are covering things mostly from 1960 onwards, I was thinking whether there is a point in continuing with the 1.5 liter cars at all here.

[Ted Walker]

Yes its a good idea to continue BUT you have to split the cars ,because they are 2 different "animals"

[henk4]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Pieter

The point you must remember here is that the terms T51 and T53 were introduced years later and I have found no contemporary reference to them. The 1959/60 car was called the Mark IV and the 1960 works cars were simply called Lowlines. It was a completely different design. The chassis numbering system has no bearing at all on this.

The 1959 cars and the 1960 customer cars belong together but the 1960 works cars belong with the 1961 customer cars.

That is an interesting comment on the type number allocation and also a bit conflicting with the system Doug has adopted. The chassis records show no reference to the word "lowline" at all (and yes of course it is a totally different design), but the 1960 production of single seaters are all listed under the heading "MkVI Formula II single seater racing car" (The 1959 cars are simply named MkIV Formula II cars). So on the basis of the uniform MkVI chassis list we have to single out the 2.5 liter lowlines, and I think we found four so far, the three I indicated and F2-17-60, the one you mentioned.
So do we need a new thread for the lowlines, and single out these cars and continue into 1961 (either as 1.5 liter cars or 2,5 liter Libre cars?)

[John Turner]

Right; apart from the thread title (now T51) I have kept this thread intact, for completeness and continuity, but have copied over any of the above relevant posts (with, hopefully, appropriate editing!) to a new T53, thread.

[Bryan Thomson]

Any info or news on Cooper Climax Type 51 F2/14/59 , supposedly delivered new to Victa Industries in Australia ?

[oldhealey49]

Now residing in South Australia.