Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[bjohnsonsmith]

[QUOTE=chernaudi;3528543]I always thought that the Nissan's front end design reminded me of something, and i think that I found it, the Brabham BT44, 45 and 46

Those Brabhams had a similar nose-mounted radiator architecture with the rads being mounted as far back as possible, and even had pullrod front suspension like the Brabham types mentioned did.

BT44:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

BT45:

I can't see it myself.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Standard BT46:

[bjohnsonsmith]

[QUOTE=chernaudi;3528543]I always thought that the Nissan's front end design reminded me of something, and i think that I found it, the Brabham BT44, 45 and 46

Those Brabhams had a similar nose-mounted radiator architecture with the rads being mounted as far back as possible, and even had pullrod front suspension like the Brabham types mentioned did.

BT44:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

BT45:

I can't see it myself, particularly with the BT46.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Standard BT46:

[chernaudi]

Try this with the Nissan without the engine cover:



And much like those old Brabhams, pullrod front suspension, the BT44 was first, the Nissan GT-R LM and the Ferrari SF-15T being the most recent adoptees:



Compare to the "nose-less" BT45:

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Compare to the "nose-less" BT45:

Keep in mind the wingless and early winged F1 cars were all front radiator, and later people started doing sidepods, so the Brabham was going kind of a bit old school there, but they presumably felt there was some advantage in doing that.

[chernaudi]

It was also hard to mount side radiators with the trapezoidal tubs that Gordon Murry designed up though the BT46, which is why on the BT46 they tried to run evaporative cooling heat exchangers, but when that didn't work, they reverted back to a front wing/radiator/splitter & diffuser assembly.

Murry designed a car with a "conventionally" shaped tub for the Alfa Romeo V12 powered BT48, which when modified to run a Cosworth Ford V8, became the BT49.

Another thing historically is that though Brabham were the first to use it as far as popularizing it, the '74 Tyrrell 007 run a pushrod front suspension. The Lotus 72 ran pullrods (though they weren't called that at the time), and interestingly, it can be said that Audi were the first to use a "push-pull" rod operated suspension, as Auto Union (modern day Audi) used a very early pullrod suspension system in the 1930s.

Suspension system history over, it should also be noted that the BT45 and 46 had the relatively (compared to the Ford V8) Alfa Romeo flat V12, and that probably also helped balance weight (though the BT44 also had them).

In the case of the Nissan, the engine is front mounted, and it's mostly front wheel drive, so having weight up front (on the main drive wheels) is (or hopefully should be) beneficial.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Another thing historically is that though Brabham were the first to use it as far as popularizing it, the '74 Tyrrell 007 run a pushrod front suspension. The Lotus 72 ran pullrods (though they weren't called that at the time), and interestingly, it can be said that Audi were the first to use a "push-pull" rod operated suspension, as Auto Union (modern day Audi) used a very early pullrod suspension system in the 1930s.

The front suspension, of the Lotus 72, consisted of upper and lower wishbones, torsion bars, anti-roll bar and telescopic dampers mounted inboard. Rear suspension incorporated lower wishbone, top link, only one radius rod since the suspension was relieved of braking loads as the brakes were mounted inboard, torsion bars, anti-roll bar and telescopic dampers mounted inboard but this is wildly off topic, .

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The front suspension, of the Lotus 72, consisted of upper and lower wishbones, torsion bars, anti-roll bar and telescopic dampers mounted inboard. Rear suspension incorporated lower wishbone, top link, only one radius rod since the suspension was relieved of braking loads as the brakes were mounted inboard, torsion bars, anti-roll bar and telescopic dampers mounted inboard but this is wildly off topic, .

I contend that any discussion of innovation in racing car design is ON topic in the Nissan thread.

[GTfour]

Untill this Nissan LMP1 will be able to seriously blast LMP2's in the weeds, I think it'll be highly uncertain for them to enter Le Mans.
I don't think Nissan Japan will ever allow a car bearing their factory name to race there with a chance to be comprehensively beaten by LMP2's with Nissan customer engines.

I honestly don't expect to see these batmobiles in La Sarthe in 2015.

[TF110]

Lol, come on, thats being a little too pessimistic. Theyll be there, on or off pace.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by GTfour

I honestly don't expect to see these batmobiles in La Sarthe in 2015.

Prepare to be wrong then.

[GTfour]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them at Le Mans but with them Japanese really not liking loosing face and all...

Just saying, Yokohama could very well postpone the whole thing untill next year.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them at Le Mans but with them Japanese really not liking loosing face and all...

Just saying, Yokohama could very well postpone the whole thing untill next year.

Honda is still muddling around in F1 this year. Well, when they make it to the start that is.

Don't mean to draw parallels to F1, but it seemed too good an opportunity to miss. Nissan will be there, no question.

[MoMedic9019]

There is zero chance of them not being there.

They will be on the grid, no question.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Nissan was ok with the delta wing project that probably could of gone farther.

Nissan was having similar issues with the ZEOD as they are now,and we all saw that project crash and burn.

Seems like nissan was ok with how the zeod went down that they green lighted the Gt-R.so I see no reason why they would change now and not show up,eventhough at the rate things have been going for them it looks like it's going to be another crash and burn like the zeod,AMR one,and pescarolo 03.

Really cool exciting concept,with what feels like poor execution.i almost feel sorry for them.

[wolfhound]

I wonder does this give an indication as to where Nissan is at compared to its opposition.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118614

Audi completes over 6500 km

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118559

compared with Nissan's 2000km which is a lot less than what one would expect for a 24 hour race distance.

[pirenzo]

It means Nissan aren't ready to do a 30 hour race simulation yet, which we pretty much knew already. They're still doing shorter runs and spending lots of time tinkering in the pits.

[wdave0]

If they can get to Le Mans and qualify, then run just one lap they will have scored their PR coup, look at how much press and discussion they have gotten already.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them at Le Mans but with them Japanese really not liking losing face and all...

Wouldn't pulling out because they are too chicken make them look even worse than giving it a go?

It would to the majority of racing fans.

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by pirenzo

They're still doing shorter runs and spending lots of time tinkering in the pits.

And they are not even running the hybrid system in the tests.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by wdave0

If they can get to Le Mans and qualify, then run just one lap they will have scored their PR coup, look at how much press and discussion they have gotten already.

Similar to the DeltaWing ZEOD efforts. Promise the world, turn up, deliver what in everyone elses eyes is a complete flop, and claim a huge victory.

Weren't they quoted as saying they WILL win Le Mans within a couple of years?

[PascaLM]

According to AUTOhebdo, Carlos Ghosn - Nissan chairman - has cancelled the visit previously scheduled for the LM race.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Wouldn't pulling out because they are too chicken make them look even worse than giving it a go?

It would to the majority of racing fans.

Depends upon how it would be spun.

Richard

[TF110]

Reading this interview, it sounds like Nissan are actually making some progress. But what about that hybrid? This quote is hopefully the real deal

I’ve had some people suggest what lap times we are doing but they’ve all been well wide of the mark… we’re going to surprise a few of them come Le Mans.

[Akrapovic]

Nissan are always using quotes like "We'll surprise people" and "We do things differently"

Until they actually produce a car that works and is fast, these quotes can just be added to the pile.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Nissan are always using quotes like "We'll surprise people" and "We do things differently"(...)

..and I wish the journalists would stop letting them get away with this (but this applies to more sections of life than just motorsports).
One could, for instance, point out that one of the things that the others are "doing differently" is actually showing up to the races you announce you'd be going to.
Or point out that the "we'll surprise people" might refer to how few races they actually start (and how fewer they'll finish) in their "full WEC season".
Everytime one of those boasting PR spins comes along, they ought to be smashed into the ground beyond recognition, uncovering the messenger's bold lies and claims.