[Team] Mercedes: Will they ever dominate again?

[Adam43]

The article says, not Mercedes says.

Didn’t we have all this last year too? While it is a possibility he will not be there. It is most likely that there is not a lot in this. Still column inches and clicks.

If you think there is I believe there is a riveting thread for everyone’s theories on this.

In reverse order of interest, but the order the discussions will occur:
1. Who are the drivers?
2. What color will the car be? (Get ready for more comedy theories and reading too much into things as to what this means!)
3. What is the car like, similar to others? Radical? Have they hit the right technical solution?
4. Testing times and reliability
5. The first race performance…

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The article says, not Mercedes says.

The paragraph below the heading says: ''Mercedes to unveil W13 on February 18 and say both drivers will attend digital launch at Silverstone; Lewis Hamilton, whose future is still unclear, joined by George Russell in 2022.''

[Adam43]

The article added “whose future is still unclear” I presume, not Mercedes, was my comment.

All Mercedes have said is that it is Hamilton and Russell. Which is great.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Adam43

All Mercedes have said is that it is Hamilton and Russell. Which is great.

We are talking clickbait journos here..... does it actually matter what Mercedes or Lewis actually said or think?



I'll get my coat.....

[Tourer]

Felt it might be time to drag this thread out.

We've seen a huge re-shuffle of the form book from recent years over the first three races of this new era.

For the 1st time in years, Ferrari have so far been right up at the front on genuine pace & so far look like the clear best team, Red Bull close on pace to the scarlet cars but struggling with the car and new tyres more - and of course struggling with reliability as well but for all that, you'd have to say on pace at least, a clear 2nd so far.

So what of Mercedes? At times they've appeared to be maybe 3rd best on pace, at other times 5th or so & there has been a lot said by the team about needing to understand the problem before they can fix it. Sky commentary seems to believe that once the problems with the silver arrows are solved, then the team has a jet under them (& that MAY be right) but even if all the problems do get resolved, I'm not yet convinced that Mercedes will get to dominate in quite the same way as the recent past - which is the title of this (resurrected) thread.

No question that Mercedes is a good team, well-resourced with a lot of very talented & driven people but also there is the budget cap to consider and what impact that may have. For example, if they get to a point where it is clear that the car concept is simply not going to work and a new path has to be started, where does that leave them within the budget cap restrictions?

Personally I think that 23 is too many races in a season by far but Mercedes must be thankful for the long season just now as it gives them a chance to come back - do we think that they'll manage it, do we think that they'll dominate again?

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Felt it might be time to drag this thread out.

We've seen a huge re-shuffle of the form book from recent years over the first three races of this new era.

For the 1st time in years, Ferrari have so far been right up at the front on genuine pace & so far look like the clear best team, Red Bull close on pace to the scarlet cars but struggling with the car and new tyres more - and of course struggling with reliability as well but for all that, you'd have to say on pace at least, a clear 2nd so far.

So what of Mercedes? At times they've appeared to be maybe 3rd best on pace, at other times 5th or so & there has been a lot said by the team about needing to understand the problem before they can fix it. Sky commentary seems to believe that once the problems with the silver arrows are solved, then the team has a jet under them (& that MAY be right) but even if all the problems do get resolved, I'm not yet convinced that Mercedes will get to dominate in quite the same way as the recent past - which is the title of this (resurrected) thread.

No question that Mercedes is a good team, well-resourced with a lot of very talented & driven people but also there is the budget cap to consider and what impact that may have. For example, if they get to a point where it is clear that the car concept is simply not going to work and a new path has to be started, where does that leave them within the budget cap restrictions?

Personally I think that 23 is too many races in a season by far but Mercedes must be thankful for the long season just now as it gives them a chance to come back - do we think that they'll manage it, do we think that they'll dominate again?

Hopefully not - the first three races have been so refreshing for the sport. Always nice to have some different teams have their time to shine.

Maybe we will see Sir Lu "do an Alonso" and emulate Fernando's 2012 season and drag a bad car into championship contention. Or maybe George will be that guy. That will make for a cool side story to the championship.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Hopefully not - the first three races have been so refreshing for the sport. Always nice to have some different teams have their time to shine.

Maybe we will see Sir Lu "do an Alonso" and emulate Fernando's 2012 season and drag a bad car into championship contention. Or maybe George will be that guy. That will make for a cool side story to the championship.

Agree with that - good to not have one team dominating and if Mercedes can "get in there" and make it three teams at the front on pace, that would be pretty damn good.

[S griffin]

Merc aren't that far behind RBR and Ferrari. They need to just keep collecting points, especially as their car is reliable unlike the RBR. That means if they manage to sort their car soon, they won't be too far behind in the title race

[Skam85]

1 second a lap is pretty far behind in this day and age

[P38 in workshop]

I have been enlightened this very morning on the range of problems facing Mercedes.I turned to the page in the Sunday Times that covers Formula 1 and it focuses on the change of fortunes that has occurred.


The list of things they have to overcome-and here I quote directly "insufficient drag,issues warming up tyres and porpoising".Meatloaf may have been on the money when he sang that two out of three ain't bad...


If the writer,one Rebecca Clancy,would like to ingratiate herself with the team management by suggesting ways to increase the drag then we might be able to forward a few suitable notions to her.

[S griffin]

Merc need to sort their car out, but it's a shock to see both of them that far down on the grid. That sounds a very interesting Sunday Times article btw. Of course it's not easy to find a solution

Really I have faith in the design team that they can turn things around. They don't even need Meatloaf for inspiration. And increasing drag ain't a great solution, clearly that writer needs to do a bit more homework

[GTRMagic]

Mr Wolff may now possibly subscribe to the theory, perhaps, that #13 (as in the W13) is actually an unlucky number.

The stories about the number and quality of engine team talent migrating to Red Bull engines may also have something to do with it..

[GT6]

mercedes have two problems, firstly the car is not that good and secondly lewis seems to be lacking in desire.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by GT6

mercedes have two problems, firstly the car is not that good and secondly lewis seems to be lacking in desire.

The car was initially ok, when they tested at Barcelona. Hamilton and Russell finished on top but it's all gone down hill since testing at Bahrain, which is when the sidepodless car appeared.

[chunterer]

Russell is making the most oug of a dogs dinner!
Lewis I think is just in shock how hard he is having to drive after the previous years!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Russell is making the most oug of a dogs dinner!
Lewis I think is just in shock how hard he is having to drive after the previous years!

Maybe you're right about Lewis. He was right behind Gasly for lap after lap and couldn't get past.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Maybe you're right about Lewis. He was right behind Gasly for lap after lap and couldn't get past.

Not having DRS certainly hindered him but Merc is defo better in race trim than qualy.

[bathurst77]

In March I asked
-----------------------------------------------------
13 Mar 2022, bathurst77

what if the Merc is a bad car all year? How long would Merc stay in watching their car running in low midfield. They are used to being "the best".

Same for Lewis. How motivated would he be hoping just to pick up points here and there?
------------------------------------------------
Well now we read
https://www.news.com.au/sport/motors...4938dba768743b

Lewis has already written off 2022 (strange given George is 4th)

I know Lewis has a multi year contract, but there are always loopholes. Performance requirements. And if he isnt going to another team but leaving F! or to take on a non driving (even if only cosmetic) role in Merc F1, im sure it could be arranged

Lewis to retire at end of 2022 Oscar Piastri in?
You read it here 1st folks!

[bathurst77]

I also said, when Hazaspin was sacked
------------------------------------------------
6 Mar 2022, 11:54
Rumours going round that Lewis has broken his merc contract to grab the once in a lifetime chance of a seat at haas.
(Source: I make sht up)
-----------------------------------------------

Ok that was a joke at the time, but 4 races in, Lewis might wish he had of.

[v8man]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Russell is making the most oug of a dogs dinner!
Lewis I think is just in shock how hard he is having to drive after the previous years!

This just proves what many people have said about Hamilton, he is a champion in the best car in the field but as soon as he had a car that is not quite up to it he is nowhere, his new teammate runs 4th and Lewis finishes 14th at Imola and Lewis has given up.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by v8man

This just proves what many people have said about Hamilton, he is a champion in the best car in the field but as soon as he had a car that is not quite up to it he is nowhere, his new teammate runs 4th and Lewis finishes 14th at Imola and Lewis has given up.

He has previous back in the non hybrid past too.It has always been the question mark with his GOAT ranking.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Russell is making the most oug of a dogs dinner!
Lewis I think is just in shock how hard he is having to drive after the previous years!

George has had a few years of experience dragging a Williams further up the grid than it deserved to be. Lewis on the other hand has had years of experience making the best of either the best, or second-best car on the grid. George is also a lot younger & hungrier than Lewis who has been there, seen it and got many 'T' shirts.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by v8man

This just proves what many people have said about Hamilton, he is a champion in the best car in the field but as soon as he had a car that is not quite up to it he is nowhere, his new teammate runs 4th and Lewis finishes 14th at Imola and Lewis has given up.

The trouble is we haven't seen Hamilton driving a midfield to lower-midfield car as regularly as Alonso has driven one, so now we get to see Hamilton in that role, so that could be quite interesting.

The 2009 McLaren car was only a lower midfield car for a half a season before it was competitive again, whereas the McLaren-Honda and McLaren-Renault that Alonso drove was a lower midfield car for much longer... So Alonso was involved in a lot more vigorous five-way scraps for the odd point and other such excitement, a role that Hamilton now gets to enjoy.

Quite the shame that Russell didn't get to drive the front-running 2020 & 2021 Mercedes for the full seasons, as Russell probably could've contended for the WDC in both instances, but oh well Mercedes made their decision and preferred Bottas for whatever reason: even though rivals Ferrari and Red Bull were happy to promote their junior after one season only.

[Tourer]

I think that it would be quite easy to join something of an anti-Lewis pile on just now (similar to the pile ons on other drivers, even race officials at times) but I'm more like your approach V8 Fireworks - we haven't really seen much of Lewis in a lower-midfield car, certainly not in recent years and that makes it interesting to see how he does.

Lewis is a class driver, no question about it - personally I've never once believed the "GOAT" suggestions or even the "head & shoulders better" suggestions about him but he's definitely in the elite class of drivers, with maybe 3-4 others, possibly a couple more than that if we factor in car capabilities and the like. How the team turn the car around, what Lewis can do with it (particularly in comparison to George) and as a result, what impact the team can have on the front of the field is go0ing to be at least an interesting sidebar this year and may end up being a big part of the story of this year's championships.

We've seen Lewis a bit flat in his outlook in the past, sometimes during races but he has always found a way to get past that - just seems to be the way that he processes some challenges.

The year is shaping up pretty well overall. Feels like it'll be a while before Mercedes actually dominates again though, if they ever do, which in all honesty is a good thing for the sport and was bound to happen at some stage.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Casper

It amazes me why people think that changing things will change the running order. In my experience of motor racing the best always wins no matter what changes take place.

It is interesting reading back through this thread and an excellent call by me....Not. Ah well, win some lose some.