Can Alexander Albon survive at Red Bull?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

i think saying yes please and shaking their hands is likely to be a more polite way of getting a drive

Like a dog with a bone......

[greentrumpet]

Hope it happens but would he really want to go to a team without a confirmed pu supply?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by greentrumpet

Hope it happens but would he really want to go to a team without a confirmed pu supply?

Probably better than going to no team at all.....

[Taxi645]

I don't think there any bad blood between Perez and Verstappen. I think Max respects Perez as a racer. At Monza, I think it was last year or so, Max gave him a thumbs up after the race for not allowing him passed half of the race.

I think the big thing with Perez is, that he most to come on board on the condition that the team interest and Max's championship chances must come first.

Will RB thrust him to perform that role consistently? Hulkenberg can be more easily thrusted on that front I reckon but perhaps will bring in less cash. I consider them equally fast, but will they be able to stay within 0.25s off Verstappen?

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Yeah, Albon has shown real talent and bravery but not in the last few races for sure and not all that much in total through this season.

Does make you wonder about the general atmosphere and management at RBR (yet again). Drivers ARE going to struggle at times but a well-run team can work with the driver to turn that around. Just doesn't seem to happen at Red Bull unless the driver is the current "Golden child".

Seen it there before with Vettee, now with Max that the relationship with the team is great and definitely strong but the other driver just seems to be completely overlooked.

A one-car team in its outlook and I can't see Albon regaining his flair and confidence in that environment, sadly.

Red Bull have brougt back Simon Rennie as Alex his engineer to try to improve the situation, he has the same car as Max: what else can they do?

[gert]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

he most to come on board on the condition that 1. the team interest and 2. Max's championship chances must come first.

I think it is not that hard to sell argument #1 to any driver.

I think it will be harder to convince any driver, especially an established one (versus a Red Bull junior driver) of prerequisite #2.
After all, Bottas is allowed to go for his own chances. He's not able to beat Hamilton, but he is allowed to. I'd say he is there to help Mercedes' interest but not to support Hamilton's title bid.
Likewise, Leclerc was not there to just help Vettel win the 2019 title.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by gert

I think it is not that hard to sell argument #1 to any driver.

I think it will be harder to convince any driver, especially an established one (versus a Red Bull junior driver) of prerequisite #2.
After all, Bottas is allowed to go for his own chances. He's not able to beat Hamilton, but he is allowed to. I'd say he is there to help Mercedes' interest but not to support Hamilton's title bid.
Likewise, Leclerc was not there to just help Vettel win the 2019 title.

Bottas is allowed to challenge because:

1 Mercedes is dominant enough for it not to be a championship problem (a luxury RB does not have)

And 2: Bottas is not good enough to challenge Hamilton when it really matters.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Bottas is allowed to challenge because:

1 Mercedes is dominant enough for it not to be a championship problem (a luxury RB does not have)

And 2: Bottas is not good enough to challenge Hamilton when it really matters.

I am just trying to find out which kind of driver they are targetting with those 2 prerequisites.

"Hey Daniel, want to join us? We want to upgrade our second car. Pierre and Alexander have tried, but they're no good, we all know that. I think you're the perfect fit. You know Max, don't you? We want him to be world champion, and we need you to help us help him. And if you beat one of those pesky Mercedes, then maybe you can even stand on the podium next to Max"
-> that probably won't work.

"Hey Lando, ..."
-> would he?

"Hey George, ..."
"Hey Sergio, ..."
-> ?


---

I know I'm exaggerating but I don't think getting someone who is condemned to be #2 is going to help.
They need someone who is close to Max, can occasionally beat him and is encouraged to do so (instead of being held back). I think that is the best way to get your team to advance.

---

As for Perez to Red Bull: the second driver for Indycar's Arrow Schmidt Petersen McLaren (Askew) has been released - or will be released after the next (and last) race.
ASPM is rumoured to be interested in Perez as a teammate to Pato O'Ward

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by gert

I am just trying to find out which kind of driver they are targetting with those 2 prerequisites.

"Hey Daniel, want to join us? We want to upgrade our second car. Pierre and Alexander have tried, but they're no good, we all know that. I think you're the perfect fit. You know Max, don't you? We want him to be world champion, and we need you to help us help him. And if you beat one of those pesky Mercedes, then maybe you can even stand on the podium next to Max"
-> that probably won't work.

"Hey Lando, ..."
-> would he?

"Hey George, ..."
"Hey Sergio, ..."
-> ?


---

I know I'm exaggerating but I don't think getting someone who is condemned to be #2 is going to help.
They need someone who is close to Max, can occasionally beat him and is encouraged to do so (instead of being held back). I think that is the best way to get your team to advance.

---

As for Perez to Red Bull: the second driver for Arrow Schmidt Petersen McLaren (Askew) has been released - or will be released after the enxt and last race.
ASPM is rumoured to be interested in Perez as a teammate to Pato O'Ward

I generally agree, however when having to choose between no seat in 2021 (or at best a slow seat) or playing 2nd fiddle in a top 2 team and having chances for frequent podiums, that equation might not be that hard to make if your name is Nico or Sergio.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by gert

I know I'm exaggerating but I don't think getting someone who is condemned to be #2 is going to help.
They need someone who is close to Max, can occasionally beat him and is encouraged to do so (instead of being held back). I think that is the best way to get your team to advance.

---

As for Perez to Red Bull: the second driver for Indycar's Arrow Schmidt Petersen McLaren (Askew) has been released - or will be released after the next (and last) race.
ASPM is rumoured to be interested in Perez as a teammate to Pato O'Ward

I think RB accept and perhaps no longer even expect the 2nd driver to trouble Max. If they did they would go all out and sign another established top gun regardless of their driver programme.

Askew is being let go? Where did you read this?
I can't see 2 Mexicans in the same squad.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Red Bull have brougt back Simon Rennie as Alex his engineer to try to improve the situation, he has the same car as Max: what else can they do?

Plenty - primarily around mindset and confidence of the driver in question as he has shown that the talent is there. Clearly Max is more comfortable / confident in the car and team environment.

Whilst an engineer change can result in tuning the car to better suit Albon, comfort with the team environment is a different issue and one where it appears that the team (from the outside) could do more to get the best out of not just Albon now but other drivers in the past, such as Gasly, Ricciardo, Webber as a few examples.

[gert]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I think RB accept and perhaps no longer even expect the 2nd driver to trouble Max.

Then maybe they should keep what they already have? Albon (the current version) or Gasly (the 2019 version) is exactly that.

Originally Posted by chunterer

Askew is being let go? Where did you read this?
I can't see 2 Mexicans in the same squad.

https://www.autosport.com/indycar/ne...or-2021-season
https://racer.com/2020/10/12/amsp-to...st-petersburg/

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Askew is being let go? Where did you read this?

Confirmed on Autosport, and other places.
Shame, he's had his ups and downs in 2020, but he obviously has the potential.

[gert]

Would ASPM release Askew if they hadn't already lined up someone else?

I'm not saying they have signed Perez, but the rumors of the mutual interest ASPM - Perez date from just after Vettel signed for RP/AM and long before the news of the Red Bull-Honda split

[RWill2073]

I'm not sure why perez is viewed as worthy of that seat. He is just a midfield filler in my opinion. What he brings, though, is money, and as honda leaves, that might be worth it to set up taking on the engine in house. He wont need to be told he's a number 2. He won't challenge max except on an odd week. Plus,the car will continue to be designed to verstappens liking anyway, rendering it a moot point. I think hulkenberg is better perez, but doubt he brings as much money.

I've never been impressed with albon, and said as much. I guess gasly could take the second seat, and be told the focus is max first. Then give him a guarantee of 2 years so he can get comfortable and have time to develop and improve. Maybe albon could be given one more year for the same reason. This was his first full season with the team and didnt get the usual preseason either. Dont think it'll matter that much for him either way, as I dont think he'll get much closer to max. That radio call about being raced hard was pathetic. Maybe between flatspotting two sets of tires, damaging a sister car, getting a penalty, and running around far outside the points while his teammate was keeping up with the dominant leader, the team just said that was enough for the day. If so, I don't think you come back from that.

I am a little amused at the praise Russell gets around here, as he doesn't really do much in the races. Makes a lot of mistakes. And has never had a teammate worth comparing to. Then I remember... location checks out!

[chunterer]

Trouble is will, as you say the car/team is for Max so the 2nd driver won't get the opportunity to get comfortable and progress if the car is not how they like it.

Very few drivers, if any can beat a top driver in a car designed for that driver!

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

I'm not sure why perez is viewed as worthy of that seat. He is just a midfield filler in my opinion. What he brings, though, is money, and as honda leaves, that might be worth it to set up taking on the engine in house. He wont need to be told he's a number 2. He won't challenge max except on an odd week. Plus,the car will continue to be designed to verstappens liking anyway, rendering it a moot point. I think hulkenberg is better perez, but doubt he brings as much money.

I've never been impressed with albon, and said as much. I guess gasly could take the second seat, and be told the focus is max first. Then give him a guarantee of 2 years so he can get comfortable and have time to develop and improve. Maybe albon could be given one more year for the same reason. This was his first full season with the team and didnt get the usual preseason either. Dont think it'll matter that much for him either way, as I dont think he'll get much closer to max. That radio call about being raced hard was pathetic. Maybe between flatspotting two sets of tires, damaging a sister car, getting a penalty, and running around far outside the points while his teammate was keeping up with the dominant leader, the team just said that was enough for the day. If so, I don't think you come back from that.

I am a little amused at the praise Russell gets around here, as he doesn't really do much in the races. Makes a lot of mistakes. And has never had a teammate worth comparing to. Then I remember... location checks out!

Generally agree with everything said here, other than I feel you're a bit harsh on Perez since he has the asset of being very capable of getting the most out of Pirelli tyres and can certainly seize the moment in a midfield car better than most (certainly better than Hulkenberg, who I'd agree would generally shade him as a racer otherwise - heck, just look at how he has stacked up against Carlos Sainz Jr and Ricciardo compared to their recent teammates, it suggests he might be capable of being Verstappen's wingman if necessary).

One thing Red Bull must surely have in mind regarding Perez are his frequent spats with Esteban Ocon regarding driver status. Why risk that?

But again, 11 races in and Verstappen has either DNFed or scored podium finishes. A podium per race finish is unrivalled across the grid and with a good wingman (and better reliability) RBR could pose a real threat to both Hamilton for the WDC and Mercedes for the WCC. Instead you are left with someone who has had over 12 months to settle in but can not string a good weekend together aside from score a podium in that one race everyone else crashed out on. Albon's entire reputation seems to rest on the fact he's young, a nice guy, George Russell and Lando Norris like him, and he has shown good racecraft passing Alfa Romeo cars on track in a race winning car. At least Gasly to his credit seems to have found a real backbone since his demotion and has the prestige and confidence that comes with winning a Grand Prix! If Red Bull for whatever reason don't want to rehire the Frenchman, then they'd do well to hire Hulkenberg or Perez. But the prospect of Red Bull entering 2021 with Albon is effectively RBR admitting defeat in the WCC, likely the WDC too, and continuing to scratch their heads regarding 2022 with new engines etc. Best to get a new face in for a year to familiarise themselves with the team and then once bedded in use that pairing as a platform for 2022 imo, but Albon has shown he will only hold the team back from it's ambitions and has had more than enough time to prove himself.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Trouble is will, as you say the car/team is for Max so the 2nd driver won't get the opportunity to get comfortable and progress if the car is not how they like it.

Very few drivers, if any can beat a top driver in a car designed for that driver!

Beating is 1 thing, but beeing this far behind is just ridicoulous

if he had not been for the SC and he was not retired Albon would have been lapped, AGAIN

Any driver in that car should have been able to put that car on the podium with Bottas DNF, because that's how fast the car is

and this was his 20th race at Red Bull, that's twice as much races Gasly got

[S griffin]

Albon can be good one weekend, not so good on another. I do like him, he seems like a nice guy and he’s certainly quite exciting in battle. However he needs to pull his finger out more. Easier said than done though

[chillibowl]

Also think he deserves more time....20 races is really just a season. They clearly see something in him and have no real incentive to switch it up.

Almost better to save that spot as a chip to trade for an engine maybe???

With the chassis/rule freeze and running order likely to remain unchanged next year, they dont really even need his points to remain 2nd in the constructors.

[S griffin]

Another thing is, although he qualified half a second off Max, the fact that he qualified behind the two Mercs and Max and Leclerc shows the big gulf at the top between the those four and the rest. Lewis, Max and Charles are the 3 best atm and whilst Valterri isn’t quite in their league, can, on his day, beat anyone, helped by being in the best car of course

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Another thing is, although he qualified half a second off Max, the fact that he qualified behind the two Mercs and Max and Leclerc shows the big gulf at the top between the those four and the rest. Lewis, Max and Charles are the 3 best atm and whilst Valterri isn’t quite in their league, can, on his day, beat anyone, helped by being in the best car of course

But in the race Albon was NOT in that big gap, Ricciardo was 60 seconds behind Max before the SC, but Albon came nowhere near beeing in that gap

Albon is just to far behind, it's been 20 races and he does not seem to be getting any better

[Tourer]

Decision after Turkish GP according to Marko but they're comfortable with Albon so far and considered his Eifel performance "satisfactory".

Hulk or Perez possibles if Albon isn't the answer though.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Decision after Turkish GP according to Marko but they're comfortable with Albon so far and considered his Eifel performance "satisfactory".

Hulk or Perez possibles if Albon isn't the answer though.

How can they call that "satisfactory"?

but remeber Marko also said Gasly's seat was safe until Mateschitz decided he wasn't

[gert]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

How can they call that "satisfactory"?

Because maybe they know of some thing that happened of which we do not have a single clue?
Some inside info that has not come out (yet)?

Apparently Albon tested inconclusive for Covid, they approached Hulkenberg, and then after the second test was negative decided Hulkenberg was not needed.

Maybe Albon wasn't feeling too well just like Stroll - or just not 100% - but decided to race anyhow.


There's always so many things we (as public) don't know.