Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > 24 Heures du Mans

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 7 Sep 2023, 18:13 (Ref:4175572)   #101
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,546
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RL17 View Post
Deposit paid for trackside camping - probably Portsmouth Caen for a change (this time both ways)
With an agency, I assume?
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 8 Sep 2023, 08:46 (Ref:4175647)   #102
RL17
Racer
 
RL17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
United Kingdom
Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 438
RL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yes private campsite.
RL17 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Sep 2023, 08:56 (Ref:4175648)   #103
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,271
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I sent a deposit to TD some weeks ago.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Sep 2023, 15:18 (Ref:4175694)   #104
RL17
Racer
 
RL17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
United Kingdom
Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 438
RL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
well hopefully all sorted with Lycian- had to go with GE and so GS Dunlop with them finally

Does take away a fair chunk of excitement over booking and a bit of stress if all goes to plan
RL17 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Sep 2023, 16:14 (Ref:4175704)   #105
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,271
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I stand to be corrected but doesn't Lycian have the Village on the Curves behind Beau Sejours? I recall speaking to them earlier this year at a car show in Aylesbury.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Sep 2023, 18:42 (Ref:4175720)   #106
RL17
Racer
 
RL17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
United Kingdom
Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 438
RL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yes it’s way inside Beasejour at the start of the Porsche curves

Where the yellow Caddy and the Ferrari etc were spinning in the rain. Low site but can eat and drink next to track and 2 mins or less walk to high Porsche curves inside banking
RL17 is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Sep 2023, 20:23 (Ref:4178330)   #107
Number7
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Denmark
Copenhagen
Posts: 159
Number7 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Any rumors on ticket sales for 2024? Last year it was 18/10 for members, that's about 3 weeks from now.
Number7 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Sep 2023, 08:10 (Ref:4178360)   #108
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,546
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Fillon has been quoted somewhere on FB as saying ticketing opens for members in November.
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 26 Sep 2023, 18:32 (Ref:4178434)   #109
RL17
Racer
 
RL17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
United Kingdom
Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 438
RL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRL17 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Better to get the money earlier as it's not the best of times and members in November etc just pushes everything back into Christmas and is it is a sell out it's better to get sorted earlier for punters and agencies and everybody
RL17 is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2023, 08:19 (Ref:4178472)   #110
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,546
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RL17 View Post
Better to get the money earlier as it's not the best of times and members in November etc just pushes everything back into Christmas and is it is a sell out it's better to get sorted earlier for punters and agencies and everybody
I'd agree, but it looks like November, not October..... And that's only members. La Sarthe residents come after that and then the general public. I guess agencies will fit in there somewhere too.
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 28 Sep 2023, 07:58 (Ref:4178594)   #111
isynge
Veteran
 
isynge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
United Kingdom
London, UK
Posts: 2,975
isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!
Just paid my agency deposit for 2024, so I suspect that mildly ups the possibility of me showing up again next year.
isynge is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Sep 2023, 08:40 (Ref:4178596)   #112
AstonGeoff
Veteran
 
AstonGeoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
England
Witney
Posts: 654
AstonGeoff should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by RL17 View Post
Better to get the money earlier as it's not the best of times and members in November etc just pushes everything back into Christmas and is it is a sell out it's better to get sorted earlier for punters and agencies and everybody
For me a November date would be better as I have ACO membership and Brittany Ferries Club Voyager to renew in October, but I would have thought the ACO would have wanted to have the money in their bank account sooner rather than later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aysedasi View Post
I'd agree, but it looks like November, not October..... And that's only members. La Sarthe residents come after that and then the general public. I guess agencies will fit in there somewhere too.
If this years race is anything to go by there won't be much left for the general public after members and locals have hoovered up anything worth having.

Hopefully by delaying ticket sales till November they can do everything in one go and not have camping/parking later again.
AstonGeoff is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Sep 2023, 09:54 (Ref:4178606)   #113
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,271
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I'll be buying tickets through the ACO and camping/travel with an agency.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Sep 2023, 10:47 (Ref:4178610)   #114
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,546
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonGeoff View Post
If this years race is anything to go by there won't be much left for the general public after members and locals have hoovered up anything worth having.

Hopefully by delaying ticket sales till November they can do everything in one go and not have camping/parking later again.
I'm sure they realise what a shambles they created by doing that last time. Hopefully the delay will bring about the desired result! (I'm not going to the bookies with too much cash though.... ).
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 2 Oct 2023, 21:05 (Ref:4179319)   #115
crooky
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 402
crooky should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcrooky should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just took the plunge and bought the ACO Membership.

Few questions..

Presumably the login for the ACO members site is the same login as for the 24 Hours of Le Mans ticket page?

You get discount on two general admission tickets and camping. And you can buy further tickets in the members pre sale but without a discount?

There's no discount available on grandstands but the members pre sale allows you to choose exact seating?

And bonus question that isn't really that important. Is the ACO app available in English or just French?

Thanks for any help. It's exciting to get the ball rolling on next year's trip.
crooky is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Oct 2023, 08:46 (Ref:4179376)   #116
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,546
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by crooky View Post
Just took the plunge and bought the ACO Membership.

Few questions..

Presumably the login for the ACO members site is the same login as for the 24 Hours of Le Mans ticket page?

You get discount on two general admission tickets and camping. And you can buy further tickets in the members pre sale but without a discount?

There's no discount available on grandstands but the members pre sale allows you to choose exact seating?

And bonus question that isn't really that important. Is the ACO app available in English or just French?

Thanks for any help. It's exciting to get the ball rolling on next year's trip.
Yes, the login page will take you to ticketing. But here is the link I used last year.

https://ticket.lemans.org/

I've not bought more than 4 tickets with two memberships and I use a members grandstand, but I believe you can buy further tickets. Others may have better info on this.

You can certainly choose your seat(s) from what is shown as available. I'm again not sure about discounts as I use a members GS anyway.

As to the app, yes, English and French but I rarely open it.
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 3 Oct 2023, 08:52 (Ref:4179379)   #117
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 10,013
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
Re the app. If, for instance you open this https://www.lemans.org/fr/membres-ac...SAAEgKIfvD_BwE at the top of the page on the right, you'll see FR just clik on EN. Or go direct to https://www.lemans.org/en/aco-members/club-offers
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 4 Oct 2023, 10:07 (Ref:4179584)   #118
PascaLM
Race Official
Veteran
 
PascaLM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
France
Near Blois, France
Posts: 3,127
PascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
As a member, I have received a letter from ACO this morning which tells that the pre-reservation will be stopped this year. As most of you, I had usually received a pre-reservation with our grandstand seats and the parking Blanc place.
Well, this is over.
They explain it's because of the growing attendance, etc... So, now all members will have to pick all their tickets on the site, before the non-members. I have called this morning, the guy told me that it will be possible to choose the seats of the grandstand. I hope it won't be turmoil and stress on the site when the booking will start.
It's getting more difficult and more expensive (and still only one guest per member if I understand the options).
PascaLM is offline  
__________________
BoP = egalitarianism
Quote
Old 4 Oct 2023, 12:59 (Ref:4179612)   #119
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,546
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PascaLM View Post
As a member, I have received a letter from ACO this morning which tells that the pre-reservation will be stopped this year. As most of you, I had usually received a pre-reservation with our grandstand seats and the parking Blanc place.
Well, this is over.
They explain it's because of the growing attendance, etc... So, now all members will have to pick all their tickets on the site, before the non-members. I have called this morning, the guy told me that it will be possible to choose the seats of the grandstand. I hope it won't be turmoil and stress on the site when the booking will start.
It's getting more difficult and more expensive (and still only one guest per member if I understand the options).
To be honest Pascal, you've been pretty lucky. I don't know how pre-reservation worked, but as a member of 26 years it's never been offered to me. And I suspect the same goes for many members. Then again, until last year I tended not to be the one with the task of buying tickets as James always got them, but I don't think he was given any pre-reservation benefits, as far as I'm aware but I think he normally booked by phone or email. The booking process was frankly pretty easy last year but you had to be ready and waiting when the booking opened online. You will still be able to pick your seats from those available.

Last edited by Aysedasi; 4 Oct 2023 at 13:10.
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 4 Oct 2023, 13:06 (Ref:4179616)   #120
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,271
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I was wondering what "pre-reservation" meant.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Oct 2023, 13:09 (Ref:4179617)   #121
PascaLM
Race Official
Veteran
 
PascaLM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
France
Near Blois, France
Posts: 3,127
PascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePascaLM will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
I was wondering what "pre-reservation" meant.
I used to receive a e-mail telling "your usual seats number so and so and your car place are already reserved, you have just to pay". It was very practical indeed.
PascaLM is offline  
__________________
BoP = egalitarianism
Quote
Old 4 Oct 2023, 13:11 (Ref:4179618)   #122
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,546
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Very! A real luxury - especially last year!
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 5 Oct 2023, 14:15 (Ref:4179809)   #123
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,546
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
A quick question. As some of you know, I organise tickets for my old pals (The 'Tourists') but some of them aren't going next year as they favour going to the Classic in 2025 instead. But four of them are going and want to take a motorhome and tent. That means camping. This is out of my area of Le Mans expertise. I know that Tertre Rouge is favoured by many (but not easy to get) but can I have a quick ranking from others as to pros and cons of, say, Houx, Beausejour and the other main campsites? I really just want a shortlist of possibilities that I can suggest to them....
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 5 Oct 2023, 14:23 (Ref:4179811)   #124
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,271
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Although I've only camped twice I was pleasantly surprised by Beausejour although on the Sunday evening the cafe and bar was shut, but it doesn't have electrical hook up whereas Houx does I believe. My preference is Porsche Curves (also no electric hook up) but that is somewhat more expensive than the other sites.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2023, 09:53 (Ref:4179958)   #125
claude2cv
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 393
claude2cv should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridclaude2cv should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridclaude2cv should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridclaude2cv should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Houx is near the main area, Veausjour was a good campsite last year, but a good 30 minute walk from the main area but good access to Porsche curves
claude2cv is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2024 RVSC Silly Season (With Poll) Jack65 Australasian Touring Cars. 319 11 Apr 2024 22:32
[WEC] WEC 2024 Bill38 ACO Regulated Series 468 5 Apr 2024 00:29
2024 BTCC Calendar released Pickles Touring Car Racing 20 28 May 2023 21:24
IMSA What future for Sebring after 2023 or 2024? Speed-King North American Racing 37 30 Mar 2022 19:01
No Factory GT teams starting 2024 C6R Racing Fan ACO Regulated Series 26 24 Aug 2021 01:28


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.