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Old 24 Oct 2011, 15:07 (Ref:2976071)   #1
grichie87
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Well as the Season Comes to an end, Let's discuss next year

Where is the action next season ??? let all play nicely please
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 15:23 (Ref:2976077)   #2
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Who knows but I think it might be a struggle for some series & some circuits. I think that the financial crunch has hit motorsport a bit later than elsewhere but it seems to be starting to bite now with (subjectively) lower grids in many series this year. In previous years some higher cost series have sufferred a bit but people have moved down to cheaper series & they have therefore appeared to prosper. That option may not be relevant any more.

Circuit costs are also rising & I'm not sure that all circuits will be able to fill all their days unless they lower prices.
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 18:34 (Ref:2976174)   #3
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chezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
With the BARC SEC TinTops introducing the "production class" hopefully we'll be offering an even lower priced opportunity to go racing, but I think your right Andy, the crunch does seem to have taken its time to hit motorsport, but I think we're right in it at the moment, fingers crossed we'll all be able to ride it out.
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 20:15 (Ref:2976215)   #4
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When has production racing ever been cheaper? I find that sort of stuff wide open to cheating.
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 20:25 (Ref:2976220)   #5
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I see there's yet another series starting next year with the V8s. Do we need yet another race series when some of the ones we already have are failing?
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 21:13 (Ref:2976242)   #6
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chezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well with less modifications and less highly strung cars surely it has to be less expensive? Maybe cheap wasn't the right word. If regulations are strongly policed in the paddock then cheating shouldn't be an issue.
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 21:34 (Ref:2976250)   #7
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Hi Al,

To be honest, people will always cheat. You only have to read Race Car Engineering to see that. In Club racing, its a piece of pi55 to cheat and not get caught but why bother? Without the pressure of big money that drives that sort of behaviour, the only motivation to cheat at club level is personal satisfaction to win but if you have cheated, the victory will be hollow so why bother? People who cheat always get caught sooner or later, sometimes it takes years though.

Cheers,

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Old 24 Oct 2011, 21:43 (Ref:2976254)   #8
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The remit behind the V8's is to bring out similar cars and give value for money racing, if other series cannot fill grids and give value for money then its a good thing surely. Its only a 5 round series for a bit of fun anyhow and I will do some or all the rounds and be selective of other races I do with regular championships based purely on circuits I like and are within a reasonable distance. Thats recession for you. I also have to say I had my seasons best race on Sunday look at my incar vids for the amount of action I enjoyed, if other champiosnhips are failing to deliver then maybe they should go.

My thoughts on production racing is the past failure of similar championships and racing in Road Saloons that were meant to be production and clearly were not as I found out after a season of going nowhere before I sussed out the little grey areas and exploited them like everyone else was.
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 23:07 (Ref:2976312)   #9
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Road Saloons were never supposed to be Production, Al, only supposed to LOOK standard in the Slick 50 series - you were allowed to do anything not visable on the outside. The Super Road Saloons allowed lots of mods.
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Old 25 Oct 2011, 00:14 (Ref:2976333)   #10
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The thing is, Andy has hit it on the nail, the current climate is not good for ANYONE....racing is, for most, a hobby, a past time (and realistically....an expensive one at that)

So long as series are different enough then I dont see the problem with them, Bernie must have done something right to have a grid like that first time out, but i do feel that if they are not different enough, all they are doing is killing the sport we love. I think under the surface, a lot of clubs are really feeling it and it may be the case, that there will be a casulty that will make us all sit up and take note and start working TOGETHER instead of against each other. I find it amazing that people think "ohh they are the competition"...ha ha...who is?...historic Motorsport has INCREASED in the last few years, but so have the series but I dont think that they have been specifically different ones. The clubs tend to be the same or the actual series is geared at the same cars and drivers that others have on their books. Competition is a healthy thing, but saturation is not.

With regards to circuit hire, its the same price on a saturday as it is on a thursday etc....and as long a corporate track day organiser (or indeed the circuit itself) can continue to get people to part with their cash for such activities, then the circuit really doesn't care if a club is suffering or not, why would it? As Andy says though....will that continue?, if Im honest I think it will because, if I pay 200 pounds for a track day, I dont need all that MSA Licence stuff etc etc ...I can do all that for a fraction of the cost. Also, you have the likes of MSV providing "champioships"as such for track days, so Im getting to "Race" and not having to pay a fortune....hence you can now become a "Track Day Clerk" ....everyone wants in on that market....including perhaps the Licencing Department at Colnbrook? From the 1st January though Series will have to be registered with the MSA, regardless of Organising Club status or not. So Bernie and the likes of those who do not organise meetings but buy grids off organisers will now have to be registered. is this a way of regulating the amount of new series being started?....mmm I dont know....could be....then again it may just be a way of getting a licence fee from what was an untapped market ....you be the judge.



With regards to next year for The 360, what I will say is that it is bigger and better than 2011 (then again, some of you would say "thats not hard is it Claire" lol.) Its a weekend event now to enable more support races and give great value to the spectator and competitor alike and more news on those support races and other things that are happening there will be issued shortly

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Old 25 Oct 2011, 17:17 (Ref:2976666)   #11
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Minicross424 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well as for my own plans...
Hope to debut the new car but as yet it has not been started.
Push comes to shove I will refresh the engine in the current car and get back out there.
Missed most of this year and ready to get back!
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Old 25 Oct 2011, 18:21 (Ref:2976709)   #12
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I think that it is a shame that motor racing is so political and similar championships could not work together, this would increase grid sizes and lower entry fees.
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Old 25 Oct 2011, 19:02 (Ref:2976725)   #13
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There are moves afoot to do just this in a small way within the Classic Touring Car Club by opening up the tyre regs to accomadate cars that run in different championships/series. I think this is a good move and a way forward as it means costs can be cut by doing circuits more local to you. Be nice now if we didnt have to belong to all these different clubs and organisations, MSA say we only have to belong to one recognised clubs so why one for every race we enter.
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Old 25 Oct 2011, 20:33 (Ref:2976766)   #14
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chezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The issue you have with club membership etc is that if you want to run a national B championship you have to belong to the organising club...if you want the members to belong to any club then you have to run it as a national A championship. This then restricts the people that can join in the championship.
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Old 25 Oct 2011, 21:54 (Ref:2976805)   #15
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Stratton Mackay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Personally will be back in the DMN ( or whatever) in the Subaru

New and improved, no more power but prettier than ever !!!!!!
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Old 25 Oct 2011, 22:53 (Ref:2976825)   #16
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The issue you have with club membership etc is that if you want to run a national B championship you have to belong to the organising club...if you want the members to belong to any club then you have to run it as a national A championship. This then restricts the people that can join in the championship.
Well hold on, what you can do is what we did, we give membership to anyone who enters, thereby, we can run on a Clubman permit. 750 do the same thing with the Birkett, its only when you get down to the event being part of an invited clubs series that they need to be their members, but even then, the organising club could give membership to the invited club free or for a nominal £1 each.
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Old 26 Oct 2011, 07:47 (Ref:2976920)   #17
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The issue you have with club membership etc is that if you want to run a national B championship you have to belong to the organising club...if you want the members to belong to any club then you have to run it as a national A championship. This then restricts the people that can join in the championship.
If its an MSA thing then someone needs to tell them it has to change as do a lot of things if the sport is to survive. Lets stop them making excuses and putting obstacles in the way at every corner and do something about it.

Didnt see you post Claire when I posted but yes 100% agree, all of the race championships/series/events are going to need people in to compete so lets all make a concerted effort for that to be easier and less costly.
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Old 26 Oct 2011, 09:55 (Ref:2976976)   #18
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STEVED should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Season finished, i havent started yet could we rewind back to March please.

This new production series should prove to be a cheaper way of getting involved with Motorsport Mr Parkins entered his Proton Satria production car in the Tintops last weekend runing borrowed worn std road tyres.
what were the costs? Overalls, Helmet and gloves buying and preping the car £2500 although not blisteringly quick at 103.1 second lap this was his first ever race.
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Old 26 Oct 2011, 10:00 (Ref:2976986)   #19
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is true that Cirdcuits are happy with income whether its from the track day market or the race market but i cannot believe that the track day market is unaffected by the economic climate. Discussions with an Instructor friend of mine indicate that he is down in bookings and that many of the track day providers are struggling to get full days.

Add to that the fact that Donington is now operating again after a year off prior to the recession really biting (& is applying for more race days in a planning application) & that Silverstone now has the South circuit & Stowe which it is trying to market to clubs as race venues, we now appear to have more circuits, more race/ track days but fewer people who are able or willing to race/ track. Something has got to give and I suggest that should be circuit hire fees. Its supply & demand; there is currently increased supply & less demand!

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Old 26 Oct 2011, 10:19 (Ref:2977001)   #20
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This new production series should prove to be a cheaper way of getting involved with Motorsport
I haven't seen or heard anything about this new Production class, are there any regs or more information online?
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Old 26 Oct 2011, 10:23 (Ref:2977003)   #21
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If its an MSA thing then someone needs to tell them it has to change as do a lot of things if the sport is to survive. Lets stop them making excuses and putting obstacles in the way at every corner and do something about it.

Didnt see you post Claire when I posted but yes 100% agree, all of the race championships/series/events are going to need people in to compete so lets all make a concerted effort for that to be easier and less costly.

Al, you know only too well my views with regards to this, but its THE WHOLE SYSTEM that needs to wake up, not just the clubs, the governance and the competitors also need to take a stand. The thing is, we are all to blame really, for example, I was at Snetterton at the weekend as you know but it was thought by some that I should not be there as I am "a competitor of the club"...what NONSENSE.

The club in question should have no delusions that I am after their business....Im not unless they think that the individuals who partake in their clubs racing should not be allowed to go elsewhere ? We do an event once a year which is a completely different kettle of fish to anything they do (unless they are planning to go into Endurance) and I took a bit of offence when I heard it because, We dont tell people at the 360 not to race elsewhere......they would have a bloody long wait if they only raced with us!!! but that is the nature of the beast.

I have said what I believe needs to happen

1) The Government needs to ask itself whether its in the best interest of all that the governing body of a sport appoints a senior office (chairman) who is responsible for managing one of the series which is goverened by it. I personally believe that there MAY be a conflict of interest there, I am entitled to that opinion

2) We need to stop this ludicrous practice of waiting until The Brit GP has decided, followed by the BTCC and then the Superbikes when THEY are having their meetings before we can book ours (the only way to do this is to GET TOGETHER....remember how Bernie became the force he is now? he took all the smaller teams and MADE THEM ONE FORCE) If you add up all the content from club racing all the CONSTANT stream of revenue from the permits and from the licence renewals that is generated for the governing body ...I bet you it is not something that would want to be sniffed at BUT WE NEED TO PULL TOGETHER!

3) Circuits should be made to open up and allow organising clubs more flexability in organising events that the COMPETITORS and public want. In the same way as British Telecom had to make THEIR lines available to other firms to provide service, so should the circuits be made to open their venues to the organising clubs and not "keep the best bits for themselves" I am sure, it is only a matter of time before SOMEONE challenges in a court of law that there is a monopoly in effect that should not (for the good of the sport) be allowed to continue

4) The Organising and Racing clubs need to meet, get off their high horses, stop thinking they are above each other or too good for each other and need to agree a common ground whereby EVERYONE has a bite of a REASONABLE CAKE rather than trying to either stuff their faces or starve their counterparts, I said that I would facilitate this meeting....I still intend to but as you can imagine...in roads are "hard work"

and before ANYONE says with what I have said above that I may be "bringing the name of Motorsport into disrepute" THINK AGAIN...I am NOT, I love it with a passion, I do not see it as a gravy train or my given write to abuse, I volenteer on a regular basis to help run Race meetings along with countless other people be they in the Ivory Tower or on the bank, checking a car in a Scruit bay, on the phone to the posts, doing driver sign on or playing with a timekeeping system or indeed....sitting in a safety car, we all do it for love, we do not get paid fortunes we DONT GET PAID AT ALL and as most of you know, in the last two years...Motorsport has COST me alot! but the real people who also do it for love and ACTUALLY PAY so that we can do it for love...they need to also make a stand and it is no good continuing to complain about it...you must do something about it
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Old 26 Oct 2011, 11:34 (Ref:2977048)   #22
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Don't disagree with anything you say, Claire; in a largely amateur sport we shouldn't really let the voices of those who make money out of our hobbies dominate, and operate in a way that is counter to the good of the sport overall....but saying that and putting it into effect are two wholly different things, I realise.....

We've had to take a year out this year for financial reasons, but I'm hopeful that we can return to CSCC, and maybe the odd "different" event - but I suspect that we will largely be confining ourselves to those events more local to us....ie midlands - North, in attempt to reduce the travel and accommodation costs, although only Oulton is realistically on as a day-trip if dragging the trailer/racecar - though as second-driver I can in a long day make Cadwell, Donington, Anglesey, Mallory and maybe Silverstone...Rockingham, too, but we don't go there......I know we Northerners (or midlanders for the Scottish folk, who are even more circuit deprived) get a bit chippy about Southerners who moan about how far it is to Oulton or Anglesey, but those who live south of the midlands really don't know how lucky they are to have such a choice of accessible circuits.....
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Old 26 Oct 2011, 16:06 (Ref:2977208)   #23
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Well hold on, what you can do is what we did, we give membership to anyone who enters, thereby, we can run on a Clubman permit. 750 do the same thing with the Birkett, its only when you get down to the event being part of an invited clubs series that they need to be their members, but even then, the organising club could give membership to the invited club free or for a nominal £1 each.
Interesting, £1 membership to the clubs ummm
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Old 26 Oct 2011, 16:10 (Ref:2977210)   #24
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Interesting, £1 membership to the clubs ummm

Ours was five pounds....but we dropped it and its included for free with the entry now
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Old 26 Oct 2011, 16:13 (Ref:2977213)   #25
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chezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Well hold on, what you can do is what we did, we give membership to anyone who enters, thereby, we can run on a Clubman permit. 750 do the same thing with the Birkett, its only when you get down to the event being part of an invited clubs series that they need to be their members, but even then, the organising club could give membership to the invited club free or for a nominal £1 each.
You can only run a series on a clubmans permit, you can't do that with a registered championship, you have to run it on the permit that the championship is registered for.

And as for clubs giving away memberships free or for little money, I'm sure not many clubs can afford to do that and also what about those that have paid full price for their membership, its hardly fair on them.

Chris_W with regard to the regs for the TinTops...watch this space!
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