Why doesn't anyone want to drive for Alpine?

[S griffin]

There's no gurantee Ricciardo wants to go there

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

There's no gurantee Ricciardo wants to go there

And there’s virtually no chance Alpine would want Ricciardo.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by peebee2

And there’s virtually no chance Alpine would want Ricciardo.

Statements like that make me ask how you know so much about what Alpine's inner workings and their intentions.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Casper

Statements like that make me ask how you know so much about what Alpine's inner workings and their intentions.

Contacts. I have business in the F1, F2 and F3 paddocks.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Casper

Statements like that make me ask how you know so much about what Alpine's inner workings and their intentions.

From the outside he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. We spend all day whinging about no new blood in F1 and here's a chance for new and we're going with Ric for the ride over new.

[Richard C]

My guess as to why it will be hard for DR to get a new ride is that he has shown that he is struggling to adapt to the McLaren. If I was looking at him, why would I not also wonder if he might have the same issue in my car?

Richard

[S griffin]

Let's not forget he won a race only last year. So he probably could still the job in the right car. The question is whether he's going to get another chance

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Let's not forget he won a race only last year. So he probably could still the job in the right car. The question is whether he's going to get another chance

I think you’re “probably” is more a “possibly”.That combined with his age is why he won’t get another chance.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

My guess as to why it will be hard for DR to get a new ride is that he has shown that he is struggling to adapt to the McLaren. If I was looking at him, why would I not also wonder if he might have the same issue in my car?

Richard

Surely before signing any team would at least put him in the sim?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Contacts. I have business in the F1, F2 and F3 paddocks.

I could say the same, no proof though. The internet is full of people who reckon they have "contacts" to support their assertions of inside information.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Let's not forget he won a race only last year. So he probably could still the job in the right car. The question is whether he's going to get another chance

Let's not forget the car won a race only last year. So it could probably still do the job with the right driver.

Lando's results over the last couple of years and DR's results on occasion have shown that the car is more capable than the championship points would suggest.... does he deserve another chance based on overall a reputation based off results that seem a long time ago now.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Surely before signing any team would at least put him in the sim?

I would think that if the sim models the accurately car enough, it should expose any issues or not. I am curious if established drivers effectively "audition" like this or not. I fully expect new drivers do (be if FP1, tests in older cars and sim time). But for example if Max was a free agent, would Mercedes say "put him in the simulator first" or scoop him up regardless? Did Daniel do an evaluation before he moved to McLaren or did he sell himself purely based upon his existing experience and prior performance? I really don't know what happens at this level.

Originally Posted by S griffin

Let's not forget he won a race only last year. So he probably could still the job in the right car. The question is whether he's going to get another chance

For me the question is if he has a narrow operating window and Monza allowed things to align for him. The car worked well (team had a 1-2 finish). And I tend to wonder if the circuit layout, predominantly high speed corners and the chicanes which may not expose his issues. From analysis such as this video I wonder if he struggles (in the McLaren that might have a tendency to be have more understeer) in circuits that have more slow to medium speed corners. Chicanes are low speed, but I tend to think navigating chicanes is different than have a VERY optimal standard low speed corner. I freely acknowledge that my interpretation of all of this could be wrong.

Overall, I think to be successful in F1, you have to perform well not just in cars that suit you, but be also to adapt to those that done. And your performance needs to be consistent (not good one week and bad the next). The evidence just seems to point to him just struggling to adapt to a car that doesn't suit him, occasionally shows true speed, but overall, is not on par with a Lando. The real question is... As Lando gets more experience... Is it that Lando is just that good or that Daniel is just that bad? I can see him getting a drive somewhere, but there just seems to be a number of new drivers that teams might think are on the upswing and willing to gamble on, but maybe not to gamble on someone who is maybe on the downswing. Does anyone really think that Daniel is going to radically change if he goes to a new team? I apologize if this seems harsh. I have nothing against him, but I am trying to look at this logically. And competition for F1 seats is a dog eat dog world. Especially if you are not bringing sponsorship money to the team (i.e. pay driver)

Richard

[chunterer]

It seems much more complex for a teams and drivers to find that balance between consistent performance.

Bottom line is it really does seem that most of the big teams design their cars to suit the lead driver and expect both drivers to get on with it.

It used to be that cars were designed to be as good as possible for BOTH the drivers to be able to get the best from.

[S griffin]

The top drivers tend to adapt to whatever a car is doing no matter what. However most seem to have a particular style that means they need the car set up the right way. And it has quite often been the case that a car has been designed with one driver in mind, however not always. Usually the other driver though can find the right set up

[peterelise]

I confess to being a huge fan of Daniel. I am puzzled by his time at McLaren and am left wondering if it really is a matter of the car not suiting him or if Lando is simply that much better than him.

His time at Renault was actually pretty good if you compare to performances against his team mate. He beat the Hulk (who had recently seen off Sainz) and then destroyed Ocon who is currently doing a better job against Alonso (recognising it was Ocon’s first year back after a lay off).

Obviously his record at RB was outstanding. While most would view that Max was getting on top of him by the third season it wasn’t like the gaps Max has had on Gasly, Albon and Perez and a one eyed supporter like me could mount a case he was still Max’s equal ?

I simply can’t reconcile the years at McLaren with his prior CV. I suspect people like Zak Brown and Andreas Seidl are feeing the same (albeit with more insight into the detail of why Lando is giving him a hiding). Unfortunately for Daniel, I suspect most other team principals will also be puzzled and reluctant to take a punt on him (but I hope someone does).

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by chunterer

It used to be that cars were designed to be as good as possible for BOTH the drivers to be able to get the best from.

When was the last winning car designed to suit both drivers? 1996 FW18 suiting both Hill and Villeneuve?

But is it really true that the 1997 FW19 didn't suit HHF, or rather than HHF just isn't as good as JV? It's a muddly one. The roles were, of course, reversed in 1999 when HHF easily outperformed Hill in the Jordan.

Then Coulthard disadvantaged by a car tailored for Hakkinen or maybe Hakkinen was just better? But then Coulthard outperformed Hakkinen in 2001 when the car went the other way.

Then you have claims Ferrari didn't give Raikkonen what he wanted in 2008 hence why Massa was able to match him on average... But then once Massa was out in 2009, the car was developed to Raikkonen and he was able to work miracles, e.g., winning Spa.

It's a mess to decipher the sort of thing you refer to.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peterelise

I simply can’t reconcile the years at McLaren with his prior CV.

Dan doesn't seem to be as immersed in the sim racing and technical side of things as Lando or Max which can hardly help matters. Too often Daniel offers a shrug and "don't know" instead of an analysis...

James Key noted that the McLaren is weak with trail braking, yet Daniel seems to have difficulty with successfully dropping his trail braking habits and adopting the braking technique of Norris. I.e., the McLaren has unusually large downforce loss in yaw so it is best to maximise the phases of the corner -- braking and traction -- when the car has minimum slip angle. Trying to lean on the car in yaw (combined turning and braking or combined turning and traction) simply results in Ricciardo literally extracting less downforce and having less grip than Norris finds.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by peterelise

I confess to being a huge fan of Daniel. I am puzzled by his time at McLaren and am left wondering if it really is a matter of the car not suiting him or if Lando is simply that much better than him.

His time at Renault was actually pretty good if you compare to performances against his team mate. He beat the Hulk (who had recently seen off Sainz) and then destroyed Ocon who is currently doing a better job against Alonso (recognising it was Ocon’s first year back after a lay off).

Obviously his record at RB was outstanding. While most would view that Max was getting on top of him by the third season it wasn’t like the gaps Max has had on Gasly, Albon and Perez and a one eyed supporter like me could mount a case he was still Max’s equal ?

I simply can’t reconcile the years at McLaren with his prior CV. I suspect people like Zak Brown and Andreas Seidl are feeing the same (albeit with more insight into the detail of why Lando is giving him a hiding). Unfortunately for Daniel, I suspect most other team principals will also be puzzled and reluctant to take a punt on him (but I hope someone does).

This exactly.... Fingers crossed for a return to Alpine which seems the best option.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

This exactly.... Fingers crossed for a return to Alpine which seems the best option.

Certainly the best option for him but in Alpines eyes sadly I think he is down the list, beneath Gasly and De Vries who seem to be the prime candidates..... if Alpha Tauri get De Vries then Gasly is on his. way to Alpine. The release has been agreed subject to AT getting De Vries. Otherwise if Alpine secure De Vries then Gasly stays at AT.

De Vries tested with Alpine this week (along with Gio and Doohan) but not seen any reports of how that turned out. Hopefully Doohan was in the test more as preparation to becoming reserve for next year, and nothing more than that.

Realistically it seems Danny's options are Haas and Williams. Or the sabbatical he has said he might take. The problem with taking a sabbatical is what might be open for 2024. Hamilton has indicated he will do another contract extension with Merc. and that he has no thoughts of retirement.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

This exactly.... Fingers crossed for a return to Alpine which seems the best option.

For DR. Not for Alpine though.

[S griffin]

Danny would find it hard to come back in 2024, unless a new team enters....

[dsg]

Originally Posted by peebee2

And there’s virtually no chance Alpine would want Ricciardo.

I'm not sure Alpine management know what they are doing half the time, so any prediction would be fraught with danger.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Danny would find it hard to come back in 2024, unless a new team enters....

Not even then.The Dan Fans need to face reality.He’s 33.He’s had 12 years in F1 which is a pretty good career and was good to excellent prior to 2021.
His age and recent results both say he’s done.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Not even then.The Dan Fans need to face reality.He’s 33.He’s had 12 years in F1 which is a pretty good career and was good to excellent prior to 2021.
His age and recent results both say he’s done.

Well yes I guess we could say that more successful drivers have retired even when younger than Dam is now.

[Skam85]

And yet Hulkenberg is older, has achieved far less, spent more time out of F1 than in in recent years, but seems to be the preferred option at Haas.