The Future of F3

[bella]

i don't think it does devalue it, it changes it. the next step in my opinion is to offer free entries to the obvious top 2 or 3 guys in the euro championship to compete in the british series and get the *challenging* uk circuits back. make it a showcase of our fantastic venues.

it's sad that we as a nation can't sustain a 'professional' single seater category right now but if this phase is well managed it could come out the other side looking pretty good and with reputation intact.

[formerf1champ]

Unbelievable! What I'm reading on this page. British F3 soon to bite the dust? Wow! 3 races a round, for 4 rounds? Just like Victorian state racing over here. I wonder if it'll evolve into just being an amateur class, or into a MediumOSS series?

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by bella

i don't think it does devalue it, it changes it. the next step in my opinion is to offer free entries to the obvious top 2 or 3 guys in the euro championship to compete in the british series and get the *challenging* uk circuits back. make it a showcase of our fantastic venues.
.

Why should the British Championship entrants subsidise the entries of the top Euro contenders? That seems a funny way to go about building a financially viable series to me.

[bella]

not really. if you start from a clean sheet - which is where this should be really - then you need to be building it to aim for the reputation you want. i think there needs to be an acceptance that there's going to be a capital investment in building it up in its new format by interested parties that more than likely won't ever come back.

at the moment general people, and potential competitors see it as a failed version of a full championship. that needs to change for it to survive in any way shape or form.

i know what you're saying, but you do have a tendency towards a victim complex in any situation.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by bella

if you start from a clean sheet - which is where this should be really - then you need to be building it to aim for the reputation you want. i think there needs to be an acceptance that there's going to be a capital investment in building it up in its new format by interested parties that more than likely won't ever come back.

You're right... and this is possibly why it will be all but impossible for it to happen.

[bella]

yup, exactly.

this has so much potential, it really does. it's a time to be proactive and think sideways about how to develop and exploit all the assets the series has. there is still the heritage and the kudos that the british f3 brand has, but without the shackles of being a full, standalone series. brilliant.

it's not the old british f3, but there's no place for the old british f3 at the moment. but there's no reason the new british f3 shouldn't be something that can work alongside the full european f3 brand and also be strong. it might just need a bit of lateral thinking.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bella

yup, exactly.

this has so much potential, it really does. it's a time to be proactive and think sideways about how to develop and exploit all the assets the series has. there is still the heritage and the kudos that the british f3 brand has, but without the shackles of being a full, standalone series. brilliant.

it's not the old british f3, but there's no place for the old british f3 at the moment. but there's no reason the new british f3 shouldn't be something that can work alongside the full european f3 brand and also be strong. it might just need a bit of lateral thinking.

FWIW I think it's completely pointless and won't be representative or valued as a championship and not even comparable to the classic F3 battles we have seen in the past. Will the 2013 BF3 Champion sit well in the archives alongside the past champions like Hakkinen, Barrichello or comtempary champions like Vergne?

The format will end up as a knockout series, if you have your car wrecked in race 1 of the first weekend you miss a quarter of the championship!

[edenrace]

I agree with Bella 100% ....if people became aware of the political moves during the past 18 months that Berger has been FIA single seat commisioner then they would realise that British F3 has to fight back or be crushed as he wants to support the German manufacturers

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by bella

i know what you're saying, but you do have a tendency towards a victim complex in any situation.

If it wasn't for everybody being against me all the time I might have a chance of getting over it...

[bella]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

FWIW I think it's completely pointless and won't be representative or valued as a championship and not even comparable to the classic F3 battles we have seen in the past. Will the 2013 BF3 Champion sit well in the archives alongside the past champions like Hakkinen, Barrichello or comtempary champions like Vergne?

The format will end up as a knockout series, if you have your car wrecked in race 1 of the first weekend you miss a quarter of the championship!

only a complete numpty or a racing n00b would ever think to compare the bf3 champion of 2013 with the likes of vergne or hakkinen. i think it should be called the british f3 trophy, because that's.... what it is. it'd also put distance between those who persist in trying to compare it with the huge bf3 series of old.

and if you're unfortunate enough to trash your car so comprehensively it can't be fixed with a hefty overnighter then you've got bigger problems than missing a quarter of a championship you're more than likely doing to fill the gaps in your euro campaign anyway.

just... think differently. no wonder british motorsport and particularly british single seater motorsport is in such a mess. if people can't think outside of a really basic and old box then they're going to struggle with the next decade or so.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by bella

just... think differently. no wonder british motorsport and particularly british single seater motorsport is in such a mess. if people can't think outside of a really basic and old box then they're going to struggle with the next decade or so.

Oh there is no shortage of out of the box thinkers... those willing to put money behind their ideas however are few and far between... even more so in the current climate.

You need to starting by looking at those who've most to loose if BF3 ceases to exist :

o The drivers ? Well at junior level they're transient anyways and will just take their money to one of the many other series. Not sure we can depend on them.

o The teams ? They seem just as transient... and indeed many are running in multiple single seater categories also. Not sure we can depend on this lot either.

o The MSA ? They appear to be completely disinterested in single seater racing, borne out by the chaotic and growing plethora of series at this level. In terms of a premier domestic racing category... it's clear that they've laid their cards behind the BTCC. Don't think they'd be willing to dip into the coffers to create a new BF3 series.

o The promoter ? They have the most to loose... but given that they presided over one of BF3's worst spells ever... ought we rely on them ?

o The spectator ? Well recent years' track attendance figures could hardly be an endorsement of their affection for the series. It seems that F1 has sucked a disproportionate number of them in that direction and the only other thing to get a look in is the BTCC.

So who else ? Gianpaolo Dallara ?

[bella]

therein lies the problem though. individually, they all say that something should be done. none of their actions demonstrate any attempt at coming together to actually make those changes. whilst the fia have done some seriously controversial things with berger, at least they're doing *something*.

i seem to be very ranty at the moment. don't worry, it'll be gone by tomorrow

[chunterer]

It's clear attitudes and budgets have to change so a rethink of top level single seater mentality in this country has to be the way forward.

For a start let's have year or 2 year old chassis caps, long life engines, some kind of mid season and then end of season incentives like a couple of prize race drives in 3.5 or Gp2 or something and dare I say it a proper push to encourage older cars for a class b or have msv cup runners join in.

Gp lawnmower being substantially cheaper helped the current demise but I doubt that'll last forever!

[teabag]

Originally Posted by bella

i don't think it does devalue it, it changes it. the next step in my opinion is to offer free entries to the obvious top 2 or 3 guys in the euro championship to compete in the british series and get the *challenging* uk circuits back. make it a showcase of our fantastic venues.

it's sad that we as a nation can't sustain a 'professional' single seater category right now but if this phase is well managed it could come out the other side looking pretty good and with reputation intact.

our fantastic venues!? you mean our highly outdated and overated club racing circuits? we only have one professional racing circuit in the whole country and thats silverstone! look at facilities at the circuits the euroseries goes to, we cant even supply proper toilets!

[bella]

with respect, neither can spa or monza. or the nurburgring. if you're a girl then clean non-paddock based bogs are challenging to find ANYWHERE. the norisring is iffy for loos as well, hockenheim was ok, the less said about oschersleben the better. have i missed anywhere? i've never tried to look for any non-paddock based bathrooms at ricard but i'll wager they're portapotties.

the circuits themselves are great. the grey bits. the important bits that we stand out in the piddling rain to watch people try not to throw themselves off of.

or have i been doing spectating wrong all these years?!

[EastonNeston]

Compared to visiting a modern football, rugby, cricket or even horse racing venue the facilities at most race tracks are lacking, but there are some that feel the current facilities are too plush!

[racecontrol]

I can't believe the only F3 series really surviving in Europe to the euroseries is the F3 Open: always showed good grids, but not a lot of value. Money (cheap racing) won against quality... :-(

On the other hand, ATS F3 is the only feeder series, back to a national calendar I believe they could have a strong future!

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by racecontrol

I can't believe the only F3 series really surviving in Europe to the euroseries is the F3 Open: always showed good grids, but not a lot of value. Money (cheap racing) won against quality...

You clearly haven't seen it much. Value is exceptional for F3 and the probably the most competitive field last year outside of the FIA.

There are many reasons why this year the grid will nudge up to 30 and others fail or struggle.

[Flavio Galtieri]

At the risk of my various complexes coming to the fore again, I would suggest that there's an awful amount of snobbery when it comes to which series is considered "the best".

I've watched F3 Open develop and enjoyed most races live on TV last season and I have to say they seem to have a damn good idea about how to make a series successful.

Yes there will always be people who say the driving quality is better in this or that, but F3 is about learning isn't it? I can't see why you would pay a lot more to thrash around British club circuits in essentially the same car rather than visit top class international venues which you may well race on again.

There are plenty of drivers who chose a different route to the ideal one as demanded by the purists, Massa for one.

BF3 should learn from this.

I'll go and have a lie down now......

[NaBUru38]

People, not only F1 fans should worry about the loss of so many F3 championships. Sports car and touring car racing also got their best drivers from Formula 3. Now where will they get them from, Mini Challenge, Formula Renault 2.0?

The Italians mention some sort of Formula 4. Is it the Palmer's one or another proposal?

[davyboy]

Those of us old enough will lament the passing of F3 because of its heritage but the real problem is the current disarray in junior single seater racing rather than the loss of F3 per se and I see no coherent way forward there.

[peebee2]

10th is very British centred.

The reality is F3 will be very strong in 2013, probably more than in 2012. Two full-grid series with the FIA and the Open. The British mini-series and the ATS which will probably have 10 08 spec cars again plus some club class entries.

Truth is British has been mismanaged for some time now and this collapse is overdue.

A chance for someone fresh to come in and revitalise it with some sensible new regs and take it forward again after a factory reset

[edenrace]

Interesting comment peebee....in your opinion how has it been badly managed?
Maybe you have the answers?

[bella]

not that i'm peebee, but... here's my two cents.

i think it doesn't help that *any* series is remarkably difficult to run. there's not really much of a non-motorsport business comparison, it's 10 or so team owners with egos and their own ideas working against one or two people trying to take an average and act in the best interests of the collective. well, every single member of the collective has different overheads, different manpower strengths, different future intentions, etc.

it also doesn't help that we see that the seemingly inferior product - the euroseries - continues at full strength and is being promoted as the be-all and end-all by the fia. in that context, the only conclusion to come to is that the british series was somehow badly handled.

in reality, i don't think that's the case. i'm not sure sro getting involved was ever good for the series, but without them it would have fallen over and reached this stage a long time ago.

[tristancliffe]

I believe the face that SRO don't care about vehicles without roofs or wheelarches is a big factor. Plus their "get rich quick, steal all the profits" mentality isn't helping. A change of promoter would be a good move.