[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[CTD]

Originally Posted by NelisB

Le Mans also clashes with the euro cup, not to bothered as it is football :').

It always does!
I really hope they don't they move the start again

[Mal]

Originally Posted by CTD

It always does!
I really hope they don't they move the start again

Wasn't that for the tennis?

[lms]

Originally Posted by JAG

-ORECA looking to start an Asian LMPC endurance series, tested twenty Chinese drivers in Shanghai last month

GOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!! Lets dump all the lmpc cars there! Wonderful idea! But it shouldnt be just an asian series. Maybe a world series or something. Or american lmpc endurance series, european lmpc endurance series.... that would be great!

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Mal

Wasn't that for the tennis?

Back in 2002 it was for succer

[deggis]

Originally Posted by JAG

A few bits and pieces from Autosport.

-The schedule has a long summer gap to avoid clashes with the European Football Championship and Olympics.

In addition: "manufacturer and privateer teams" have warned about costs. Apparently the Interlagos-to-Fuji trip is one of the main concerns. Famin says they might even have to use different cars for the those races. Nothing about Bahrain.

[vyselegend]

Originally Posted by deggis

In addition: "manufacturer and privateer teams" have warned about costs. Apparently the Interlagos-to-Fuji trip is one of the main concerns. Famin says they might even have to use different cars for the those races. Nothing about Bahrain.

Looking at the world map, reaching Japan from Brazil is not much worse than doing the trip from Europe. It may change their logistic habits, but they'll get used to it soon IMO.

I know F1 is not the best exemple, but if teams like HRT or Virgin manages to play the glob-trotters with 2 cars each and huge team crews for a season schedule that is twice of the WEC one (and includes back to back race week-ends), then teams like Audi and Peugeot should have no problem. Plus I think the FIA is supposed to help for the transport fees, or is it not?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

Plus I think the FIA is supposed to help for the transport fees, or is it not?

le-mans-zhuhai-notebook: "Neveau admitted, though, that the late October date for Bahrain, sandwiched in between rounds at Mt. Fuji, Japan and a yet-to-be-confirmed venue in China, is not ideal logistically, although transportation will be handled through the ACO’s air-freight service."

[cmk]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

Looking at the world map, reaching Japan from Brazil is not much worse than doing the trip from Europe. It may change their logistic habits, but they'll get used to it soon IMO.

Indeed Brazil is home of the largest Japanese population outside Japan, so the two countries are quite well-linked as far as I know!

[FstrthnU]

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/fia-w...ship_5712.html
Benoit Teluyer says that he might do WEC, but since the Spa date clashes with Super GT, he might have to end his Super GT career.

[deggis]

Three days old now but hasn't been yet posted (reactions to the calendar):
http://www.lemans.org/en/races/fia-w...ions_5705.html

And the logo explained (meh): http://www.lemans.org/en/races/fia-w...tors_5713.html

[AGD]

Originally Posted by deggis

And the logo explained (meh)

Green introduces the environmental dimension, major concern of the organizers of the World Endurance Championship, of the FIA ​​and the manufacturers who take part in it.

Eh, ok. Is that why they are racing in oil-rich Bahrain? I'm thinking green stands more for greed. Or the money it'll take to get on the schedule. The Greenbacks of American fans need not apply.

Oh, and the ILMC logo was better and the ILMC logo was no looker.

At least they didn't adopt the "For the Fans" slogan.

[AGD]

I'm reading a German article that might be suggesting that it might be possible to move the China race back one week with the expected cancellation of the Austin F1 race. I don't know if the author thinks that is a realistic option or if the author is just making his own speculation. Let's say the 18th becomes available and no other F1 races are scheduled for then. Could it be possible to move both China and Bahrain back a week? Petit would still be very difficult, but at least it would open up some possibilities.

As the date of the 11th or provided the 18 November. Originally had been scheduled on November 18, the Formula 1 debut in Austin (Texas). The appointment would be now free because Bernie Ecclestone has called off the race practically.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/mehr..._11111711.html

Perhaps one of our German posters can provide a clearer translation.

[ubrben]

Yes it's a snub to ALMS, but maybe the deal for Bahrain was done assuming Petit would be earlier in October like it was this year?

Maybe ALMS should just bit the bullet and move the race a week earlier?

Ben

[AGD]

Originally Posted by ubrben

Maybe ALMS should just bit the bullet and move the race a week earlier?

But at what point does the ALMS stop taking all the bullets? Anyway, the most ideal situation would be to move Petit up a week and move Bahrain down a week. Just one of those would be positive too, but something has to happen.

[Coach Ep]

Bahrain date won´t change - it´s right in between two GP´s (Korea + India), so setting the Chinese round on November 18th wouldn´t influence any of that.

The expected cancellation of the Austin GP only means that Shanghai has a bigger chance to host that WEC round since it won´t clash with a F1 race and allowing the track some breathing space after the WTCC event on the first weekend of November. Running on the 18th will only mean it clashes with the annual Macau GP (and I´m not sure the local authorities are thrilled about that prospect). Mind you, the date and venue for the Chinese WEC round was not yet announced at the formal presentation of the WEC calender last week. So nothing new.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

The expected cancellation of the Austin GP only means that Shanghai has a bigger chance to host that WEC round since it won´t clash with a F1 race and allowing the track some breathing space after the WTCC event on the first weekend of November. Running on the 18th will only mean it clashes with the annual Macau GP (and I´m not sure the local authorities are thrilled about that prospect). Mind you, the date and venue for the Chinese WEC round was not yet announced at the formal presentation of the WEC calender last week. So nothing new.

Clashing with Macau wouldn't be much of a problem if they go to Shanghai. Having the race in Zhuhai on the same weekend would be a very bad idea though.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Bahrain date won´t change - it´s right in between two GP´s (Korea + India), so setting the Chinese round on November 18th wouldn´t influence any of that.

Why do the F1 races even matter? So is it the ACO's contention that it is better to conflict with Petit than it is to conflict with an F1 date? If so, in whose mind does that make sense?

Even if you think that F1 media will magically go to Bahrain on their off time between Korea and India, what happens to the sports car specialist media that we know will be at either Petit or Bahrain? They're splitting the only coverage they are guaranteed to get. So what briehead came up with that decision?

I doubt the situation is such that Bahrain is totally unavailable one weekend after or whatever. If they are unwilling to move some autocross or rickshaw race or whatever, then is this really a circuit you want to have a long-term relationship with?

Mind you, the date and venue for the Chinese WEC round was not yet announced at the formal presentation of the WEC calender last week. So nothing new.

The ACO lists Nov. 11th as the date of the Chinese round.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by AGD

Why do the F1 races even matter? So is it the ACO's contention that it is better to conflict with Petit than it is to conflict with an F1 date? If so, in whose mind does that make sense?

It´s the FIA World Endurance Championship now...

Originally Posted by AGD

So what briehead came up with that decision

A French one!

Originally Posted by AGD

I doubt the situation is such that Bahrain is totally unavailable one weekend after or whatever. If they are unwilling to move some autocross or rickshaw race or whatever, then is this really a circuit you want to have a long-term relationship with?

As long as they pay the bills, it could be a very long one.

Originally Posted by AGD

The ACO lists Nov. 11th as the date of the Chinese round.

You´re right, so the ACO publishes a slightly different version than a couple of (dedicated) websites (DSC, Autosport, Speed TV) - run by highly-respected journalists. So much for accuracy then.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

It´s the FIA World Endurance Championship now...

See, this is why I don't think I can support this series. So is the whole of Le Mans style sports car racing subject to the whims of Bernie Ecclestone and company from here on out? What a bunch of losers then if so. Yes, there is the excitement of Toyota, Porsche, and maybe others coming in, but I'll never be able to enjoy it because I'll have my eyes closed while wincing at the inevitable train wreck that will happen down the road. And it will happen. It'll be no different than CART defecating away 4 big-time automakers/engine suppliers, multiple chassis suppliers, two big-time tire manufacturers, several great teams, several Fortune 500 team sponsors, a major title sponsor, all of the top choice of tracks in the US (aside from Indy which they never had to begin with), and a big TV deal. Crapped it all away in less than 10 years. I'm not going to get optimistic about manafacturers because I was a tad optimistic about the WTCC only to see that turn into a whole bunch of nothing. So much for the FIA being the golden goose.

As cowardly as the ALMS is, at least they sometimes realize that you have to look out for #1 first and foremost. Did they scurry away when establishing Petit because it would be very difficult to attract large crowds on a Saturday afternoon/night in the south due to the extreme popularity of college football in the area? No. They did their own thing and look what happened. Huge, passionate fans. It elevated Le Mans to a level unknown before. It certainly did that in the US. But nooo. Behold king Bernie. Behold the King of Bahrain and whatever shortsighted treasures he has in his litterbox of all that is wrong with the world.

That's it as far as I'm concerned unless someone can come up for a logical reasoning for all of this. If the whole reason for becoming F1's female dog is so some drivers and teams can put "World Champion" on their CV, well, I have news for them. If you have to get someone to read you CV to know what you've done, well, you've done nothing glorious in the eyes of the public. You might as well be racing Formula Fords. If the idea is that "World Championship" status will make ACO racing glorious, well, just how glorified are the champions of the WTCC and GT1 Championship? Do they even have champions because as far as I can tell, the guy who finished in 5th place in the IRL championship probably gets more attention. Maybe the IRL should get "World Championship" status. They fit the criteria, don't they? No, no, even the IRL isn't that stupid. Now that's saying something.

The ACO can suck Bernie's DeltaWing all they want. If they think that is the road to riches, well, fine. They may feel the momentary high of being the "chosen" one for a little while, but just like a floozy on the perpetual rebound, they'll find out that they are only wanted so the "king" can spread his mayonnaise freely. You can get your buns toasted in eager anticipation, but not me. Hold the mayo.

* No, I'm not drunk. I'm serious!

[Mal]

Originally Posted by AGD

It elevated Le Mans to a level unknown before. It certainly did that in the US. [/SIZE]

Whilst I agree with a lot of your sentiment and the value of the ALMS in the recent history of Le Man is pretty big, to say the level is unprecedented is a little far fetched. The status of Le Mans as a global event including and especially in the states was at its height in the 60's.

If you haven't read the book 'Go like hell' I suggest you do as it is a great read

[johntt]

However....Bernie isn't as young as he used to be. There is no clear sucession plan for him when he shuffles off this mortal coil. There will then be a massive power struggle which will result in complete chaos.

With F1 in disarray, what better championship to take its place than the WEC?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by ubrben

Yes it's a snub to ALMS, but maybe the deal for Bahrain was done assuming Petit would be earlier in October like it was this year?

Maybe ALMS should just bit the bullet and move the race a week earlier?

Ben

I believe that the date for Petit was either moved to get out of the way of the WEC or for a better opportunity to get in the WEC. I don't think Petit will move either. Hindy said the other day, and I tend to agree, that this might not all be bad for PLM... If you are a European team that is out of the WEC title hunt at that point of the season, what is the best way to get an automatic entry to LM? Win your class at PLM.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Mal

Whilst I agree with a lot of your sentiment and the value of the ALMS in the recent history of Le Man is pretty big, to say the level is unprecedented is a little far fetched. The status of Le Mans as a global event including and especially in the states was at its height in the 60's.

If you haven't read the book 'Go like hell' I suggest you do as it is a great read

Ok, that's true, but the bottom line is that the ALMS has meant a lot to Le Mans. Conversely, Le Mans was pretty close to dead to Americans before the ALMS popped up. That's not the case now. Is it really worth severing those ties over Bahrain of all places?

I would think that it would be a racer's instinct to avoid big ole sandtraps. Well, maybe not.

Originally Posted by johntt

However....Bernie isn't as young as he used to be. There is no clear sucession plan for him when he shuffles off this mortal coil. There will then be a massive power struggle which will result in complete chaos.

With F1 in disarray, what better championship to take its place than the WEC?

Who knows what happens when Bernie is gone, but no series that continually puts themselves in a subservient position to F1 is ever going to dethrone anything. Look, sports car racing does not have to try to kiss up to F1 and they don't have to try to beat up F1. They just need to do what they need to do. It's like I said about Petit and college football. The ALMS did what they needed to do without worrying about everyone else and things turned out pretty well. They may need to ignore the ACO now too. Each niche of sport has their fans. Sports car racing series need to serve that niche first and foremost. Going to Bahrain at the same time as Petit is not serving those fans. I don't care what excuses people want to give, it's simply unacceptable.

Originally Posted by JHamilton

If you are a European team that is out of the WEC title hunt at that point of the season, what is the best way to get an automatic entry to LM? Win your class at PLM.

Is there any point to that idea though? If you're a WEC team, you're in Le Mans no matter what. So unless a team plans on dropping out of the WEC the next season and still wants a Le Mans bid, well, I'm not so sure if that is a good idea. And what happens if they do that and don't get an auto-invite in America? Will the ACO hold a grudge against them? It's possible.

[Mal]

Well I agree and I find it hard to believe that the date clash could not have been avoided, which makes me wonder about its motivations..... unless the ACO actually believes that Bahrain wont happen due to the political situation so it will be easy to do a late swap to PLM. I suspect there are politics at work, which is a shame, but also I don't believe the FIA is Bernie's puppet under Todt in the same way as when it was run by Mosley

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by AGD

Is there any point to that idea though? If you're a WEC team, you're in Le Mans no matter what. So unless a team plans on dropping out of the WEC the next season and still wants a Le Mans bid, well, I'm not so sure if that is a good idea. And what happens if they do that and don't get an auto-invite in America? Will the ACO hold a grudge against them? It's possible.

It depends on how successful the WEC is. The WEC is technically an invitation championship, so you never know... there may be the need. Some teams out of the championship may not want to go to Bahrain.

Frankly, I'm tired of being ****ed off this week and am trying to spin this in a positive direction.

Hindy was funny on MWM talking about the schedule. "Oct 20 is Petit Le Mans weekend which means of course... we're all headed to Bahrain"