Williams right rear tyres - What is the story?

sizzle · 21 Aug 2005, 12:52 (Ref:1387385)

With both cars now retired following two rear tyre failures each, what is going on? Are they trying to make up for a lack of straightline speed with overly aggressive suspension settings or is a more fundamental design problem?

Kicking-back · 21 Aug 2005, 13:31 (Ref:1387405)

Sam Michael has said he doesn't know yet and they're investigating, so it's unlikely any of us will know why.

Menelaos · 21 Aug 2005, 13:46 (Ref:1387420)

yea, something was obviously not exactly perfect in their set up.....

Mr V · 21 Aug 2005, 14:00 (Ref:1387436)

As k-b says, how would we know? Martin Brundle might have come up with a good reason when he mentioned the camber of the tyre.

Knowlesy · 21 Aug 2005, 14:10 (Ref:1387449)

Pretty ludicrous stuff to have 5 identical failures, something must be very seriously wrong there. Should be rectified for Monza though, so not to worry!

neilap · 21 Aug 2005, 15:42 (Ref:1387535)

AS per the folks at speed it was an issue with the rear wing rubbing on the tires. They specualte Williams were running low tire pressure to get more grip.

mixxer · 21 Aug 2005, 15:45 (Ref:1387540)

Where did Speed get that info from ?
IMO they're just speculating.

JeremySmith · 21 Aug 2005, 15:48 (Ref:1387543)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixxer

Where did Speed get that info from ?
IMO they're just speculating.

Well of course they are. But just maybe they have a point?

mixxer · 21 Aug 2005, 15:57 (Ref:1387550)

Well something on the Williams had a point or at the least a sharp edge

mixxer · 21 Aug 2005, 16:10 (Ref:1387560)

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=95878

Technical director Sam Michael added, "It is disappointing that we had to retire both cars from the race. However, after the two rear tyre incidents on each car, we had no choice. It is too early to speculate what the cause is but we are looking into it now with our tyre partner, Michelin."

Snrub · 21 Aug 2005, 17:34 (Ref:1387612)

It's also possible that both of the guesses from the SpeedTV guys and Brundle were correct. A low tire pressure with a lot of camber may have cause the tire to hit the wing under certain conditions.

JeremySmith · 21 Aug 2005, 18:39 (Ref:1387669)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixxer

Well something on the Williams had a point or at the least a sharp edge

SkaifeHRT · 22 Aug 2005, 06:41 (Ref:1388009)

I could have been something to do with the loaded tyre distorting on that high speed corner and rubbing on the rear wing endplate, which could have cut the tyre, but at this point it's just speculation. No doubt they'll sort it out quickly though.

bathurst77 · 22 Aug 2005, 13:23 (Ref:1388348)

Gotta be said, with 5 seemingly identical tyre failures and Webbers qualifying run being baulked, then a race-run in with TGF, it really was a fiasco of a weekend of Williams.
Dare i say a TURKEY of a weekend.

SkaifeHRT · 22 Aug 2005, 13:36 (Ref:1388364)

Yeah, it certainly was a forgetable race for the boys from Grove. That said, one positive they can take from the weekend is that the cars seemed to be a little more competitive than they have been for quite a while.

mark_l · 22 Aug 2005, 14:28 (Ref:1388400)

Yet again another race where Michelin turns up with sub standard tyres.

If it had brought tyres that were up to the job why did it have to tell all its drivers that they were not to run over the kerb at turn 13.

Michelin cannont say it was caught out by the track as Bridgestone were in the same position, both having not raced at the circuit before.

When will the FIA act in the grounds of safety and ensure that Michelin do not compromise driver safety by bringing marginal tyres to a race. If Michelin keep this practise up it is only a matter of time before a tyre failure seriously hurts or kills someone.

chillibowl · 22 Aug 2005, 14:41 (Ref:1388415)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

Yet again another race where Michelin turns up with sub standard tyres.

i dont think we can chalk this up to a michelin failure at all. rather one can argue that this was perhaps michelin's most successful race in f1. with the exception of the williams team the other teams seemed to have very little wear and in all likelyhood the williams failure was the result of their setup desicions.

mark_l · 22 Aug 2005, 15:00 (Ref:1388435)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i dont think we can chalk this up to a michelin failure at all. ....

Why did Michelin issue a warning to its drivers not to go over the kerb at turn 13, Bridgestone did not, to the best of my knowledge, issue such a warning to its teams.

chillibowl · 22 Aug 2005, 16:06 (Ref:1388501)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

Why did Michelin issue a warning to its drivers not to go over the kerb at turn 13, Bridgestone did not, to the best of my knowledge, issue such a warning to its teams.

i also seem recall that one of webber's tire blowouts occuring right before the pit entry, so that may be an explanation for the turn 13 warning, but the other failures occured at different parts of the track, turn 9 and 8 respectively ( i need to see the race again to besure) but if thats the case and there was a problem with the curbing/elevation changes in general why did no other team have a problem.
in all fairness to the tire manufacturers and michelin in particular they should be allowed to say "hey other teams, one of the teams we supply had a tire blowout on turn 13 and just so you know we are looking into it" and not have it be constued as "we brought the wrong tires to the track again".

Knowlesy · 22 Aug 2005, 16:32 (Ref:1388524)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

Why did Michelin issue a warning to its drivers not to go over the kerb at turn 13, Bridgestone did not, to the best of my knowledge, issue such a warning to its teams.

Bridgestone were also massively off the pace, having brought boulders instead of tyres.

Did Michelin put anyone under unnecessary risk? No, it was a controllable risk. F1 is all about that to some extent.

Besides, the failures we saw were Williams specific rather than a Michelin problem.

**Adam43** · 22 Aug 2005, 18:42 (Ref:1388609)

While Michlein don't know exactly yet, they seem to think it was a result of rubbing against the car.

Autosport.com:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dupasquier

We did realise the kerb on the inside of Turn 13 was not friendly, so we warned all the teams to tell their drivers they would risk damaging the tyres if they would cut Turn 13 too much. It wasn't the problem Williams experienced, though, I can tell you.

Kicking-back · 22 Aug 2005, 18:48 (Ref:1388617)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

Yet again another race where Michelin turns up with sub standard tyres.

Every car in the top 8 was on Michelins!

JeremySmith · 23 Aug 2005, 00:51 (Ref:1388825)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

Yet again another race where Michelin turns up with sub standard tyres.

No offence but what are you talking about exactly Mark? Did Michelin not win the race? Was JPM's flat spot due to *sub-standard* tyres.

Marbot · 23 Aug 2005, 07:56 (Ref:1388982)

These are sub-standard tyres here.

mark_l · 23 Aug 2005, 12:22 (Ref:1389238)

I will say it again, WHY did Michelin issue a warning to its drivers not to go over the kerb at turn 13?

How would you feel about the quality of a tyre if you were told you cant go round a roundabout at more than 10mph because the tyre might fail or the sidewall will flex so much it will rub against the wheel arch.

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