Drivers vs Spectators

[ford prefect]

A rant about a letter in Autosport:

SO, I opened my copy of this weeks' Autosport and after reading the letters page was rather puzzled by the arrogance of a writer stating that circuits need to better take care of competitors or pay starting fees.

I accept his argument that racers need access to their transporters, however I cannot understand his objection to being compelled to have his car on display.

The Oldtimer and the Silverstone Classic are festivals for all to enjoy, not solely for racers' playtime.

The audience are there because they admire cars, history, motorsport and (now to a lesser extent) drivers.

The gentleman concerned needs to get his head out of his own a*** and realise that historic festivals are for all to enjoy. If he doesn't like it then may I suggest he solely goes to club meetings were there are few spectators to watch or bother him, and few people to admire his efforts

[delta]

I do agree with you ford prefect but dont foget he has paid a lot of money to race at both these circuits.

[simon drabble]

written by a Mr Capon - which in farming parlance is a cock without any balls.......

[John Turner]

Simon, I'm not sure that is too helpful!

Yes, a tricky one this. The issue of transporters is a thorny one and I have heard strongly held views on both sides of the argument. The problem with modern transporters is that they are 'out of context' to the cars they are servicing and the sheer size of some of them mean that they occupy substantial space, and certainly far more so than those that serviced the cars 'in period'. On the other hand some of them now are servicing up to half a dozen cars, so it's a difficult call.

I have long accepted that as a spectator at most club historic events, I come bottom of the food chain. However I agree with fp, that where big festivals like the Classic are heavily promoted to draw the crowds in, in order to make the event profitable, the spectator should have a greater influence on how it is presented to them. Equally, I can understand the view of the competitor who has paid good money to participate. At the end of the day, organisers of these big events need to accommodate both competitor and spectator and that may mean making compromises.

I really don't know the answer to displaying cars to the end of the meeting. Most spectator (and competitors) are, by that time, trying to get out of the circuit, many with long drives home. However, for those spectators that have taken the trouble to hang around to view the cars, being presented with a lot of empty spaces is going to be pretty irritating!

[graeme]

They are only "big" meetings because there are lots of spectators there - ergo, gotta please the spectators.

A Festival without spectators is a bog-standard club meeting.

[simon drabble]

Personally I think that a well organised team can operate quite happily without the lorry being "on hand" and its pretty arrogant to suggest that the speccy is second rate. It works at Goodwood.
If teams encouraged speccys then organisers would be in a better position to help with entry fees. Another case of someone taking themselves far too seriously.

[ford prefect]

Originally Posted by delta

I do agree with you ford prefect but dont foget he has paid a lot of money to race at both these circuits.

I fully appreciate that and I am not unsympathetic.

[delta]

Er sorry Simon with my mechanics hat on Goodwood is bit of a nightmare.I was told i can have the truck near the airport but it would cost me £500.00.

[simon drabble]

ok I accept its not perfect but anything is better than a load of motorhomes clogging up the paddock - the first Classic post Coys I could not get my car into the paddock because prats had put their motorhomes where the cars were supposed to be - as a simple clubbie often taking my car on a trailer in respect to keeping your car there until the end I do sympathise when its abroad.
The fact is Goodwood is a freebie so we dance to their tune but having re read that letter he is VERY up himself and given his website has a link to Orwell I can only assume he likes doing the big I am but on his terms! A true Capon ;o)

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by delta

Er sorry Simon with my mechanics hat on Goodwood is bit of a nightmare.I was told i can have the truck near the airport but it would cost me £500.00.

er shouldn't that be mechanic's "cap on", ahem.

From my POV although it happens rarely, I quite like having the spectators around.

[jonners]

champagne events or a clubbie?

some people want it all

makes me laugh to be honest - i've read views on here where the spectators really are viewed as an irrelevance

anyone would think all this champagne event stuff these days happens because the drivers of these wonderful cars are all superstars

yes, participating at champagne events is expensive but don't tell me people would be happy to pay all that money and turn up with super transporters etc if there were no spectators..

[Andrea Lazzari]

Spectators are necessary to our races, allow the organisers to keep entrance fees accetable, to develop circuit facilities and it's also nice to see all that interest around our cars.
This year, for example, Coppa Intereuropa reappeared in Monza after a couple of years of no race. Result: entrance fee €.850 (for touring cars) and very few public. Next year hopefully will be better and cheaper.
We also had no possibility to have trucks, lorries or cars close to us, race cars where displayed under beautiful tents provided by the organiser: it was a nightmare walking up and down the old day to pick up parts or tools left in the lorry.
F1 teams where turning crazy, all the big trucks where 1,5km far away from the paddocks.
There must be a solution good for spectators and drivers! Both "categories" has the right to enjoy our fantastic Sport.

[LYNX]

Unless motor racing runs elitist and only in families, handed down from father/mother to son/daughter; without attracting spectators how are we going to motivate new blood into the sport, not just drivers but marshalls and everyone and everything that makes a car race possible. All meetings must look at what they are trying to achieve and how best to please the majority of each group. Motion Works are trying with the Silverstone Classic, time will tell how well they manage the fit. Who else?

[delta]

Talking of spectators heres a funny story for you. I was sent to Zolder just to transport a Simtec F1 car. Arrived and a phone call from the 5/6 engineers who ran the car " Iain, we have missed the plane your going to have to run the car" So here we go and i have never seen this car before. As i start to unload on my own a few locals turned up. I then get the hot water system pluged in all the time trying to look like i know what im doing.Sparkplugs out tyre warmers on and all pluged in and by this time there are around 50 spectators hovering arround ,so time to get oil presure up and fit the air starter in the back of gear box so here goes hit the button and i do a head over heals as with the force of the starter throwing me across the paddock.
Very embarrassed Anyway driver turned up and i got him out for qualifing.
Oh yes the engineers turned up just in time to go to the hotel that evening.

[LYNX]

I had heard that some men needed a jump start - but I thought it was to do with something else!

[john ruston]

At least we know who wrote the letter in Motor Racings answer to Hallo

Who is Ford Prefect ?

In this case I happen to beleive that the less transporters and general crap around the Paddock/Pits is better for 90% of the people involved and that includes the paying punters

As for new blood,can't see it as Historic Racing is for the has beens and never beens.Kids start because they have failed at moderns .

We are lucky anyone comes to the racing as we are on a par in sporting terms with Northwich Victoria Reserves and remember the name Braddley Wiggin's is much better known to the British public than anyone in Histeric racing.People turn up to see old cars or in the case of Goodwood because its the place to be and joe public can rub shoulders with the gentry and dress up in stupid clothes.

Thats better!

[LYNX]

There are a number of youngsters driving in Historic events, from 16 years of age in FJ to Masters F1, in fact at Goodwood Revival there will be more under 25 year olds then female drivers. This is for a variety of reasons. John Ruston's comments are unjust and though may be true in some cases cannot be considered a scientific response.

[simon drabble]

Actually I think JR is bang on the money. With the possible exception of Ollie Bryant who has had some modern success the young pot hunters have not cut it in modern stuff.
We are all weekend warriors and the people at the classic and goodwood and other events are there for the occassion or to see some famous cars. They certainly are not drawn in by any of us!! Sorry for the reality check.....
In respect to the punters I welcome them. The true enthusiast often knows more about your car than you do and in several cases has transpired to have been a previous owner or spanner wo can shed some light to some tweak we have been trying to understand!

[Peter Mallett]

As for new blood,can't see it as Historic Racing is for the has beens and never beens.Kids start because they have failed at moderns .

I resemble that remark!

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by john ruston

As for new blood, can't see it as Historic Racing is for the has beens and never beens. Kids start because they have failed at moderns.

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Actually I think JR is bang on the money. With the possible exception of Ollie Bryant who has had some modern success the young pot hunters have not cut it in modern stuff.

'Master and apprentice at it again' alert! Come on gents, this actually isn't quite true is it. It really doesn't matter how they get into historic racing as long as we get them there. Some start in historics, move on, come back, whatever. Some maybe sons of current historic racers. The fact is that some youngsters do enter historic racing for whatever reason. Apart from Ollie, there's Joe Twyman, Ed Jowsey, Will Schryver, Mick Lyons and Luke Stevens, and this year even last years Formula Ford champ, Calum Macleod has had a a crack at it. And these are just those that came to immediate mind. I also know of others that would like to have a go and they don't necessarily want to become stars. As long as they are there to help perpetuate historic racing, which lest we forget, is still an expanding area, and by its very nature caters for a broader range and age of cars than all the contemporary series put together, then it really doesn't matter whether they have failed in other forms of motorsport. That's also better!

[terence]

As I've often said before,and has been said here,we do need the paying public,otherwise we will be paying for thier absence in increased entry fee's.It is both for the spectators as much as us,I think that Motion do have it right without the transporters and trailers,although some quarter has to be given as far as equipement is concerned.

[john ruston]

The list of young drivers is the nearly made it brigade and want to be's.
Nothing wrong with that but the chances of them going any further are between slim and no chance.As far as FJ.I note that Peter Pan otherwise known as Martin Walford is still at the front after 15 years in the Formula so not to many Hot Shoes there.
Historics are a place for dreamers and old men (or women) who want to enjoy and relive the past along with a few Spectators and thats good but don't confuse it with serious racing .It can also be argued that it is the cheapest form of racing as the cars do not depreciate.The spectators usually know much more about the cars than the owners and should be allowed to have free access to the cars racing.
Can't comment on Goodwood ,never stayed long enough to understand it but didn't see to many kids.

The young guns can stand by to replace the over 60 drivers such as Barry Williams as there should be a few vacancies.If you want to see stars of tomorrow try Rye House or Kimbolton

[Eddy V]

I've just read that article in AS and I think it is taken a bit out of proportion. From what I understand it is more a rant (?) about the Ring. And as somebody who works with Germans I can agree with the feeling when the whole paddock has to be cleared for spectators and trade stands. They (at the Ring) do that too often in a far too overzealous way.

Yes, I prefer the open paddocks where people can get near the cars, but not when the whole equipement has to be placed where you can hardly reach it, legging it up and down 50 times a day. But then again it is for the Ring another way of making loads of money, something they like to do at whatever cost.
Over the years we have been placed in the very old paddock, on the now gone cart track, across the road in the old reserve paddock, heck even near the bottom gate at the rear of the track. Not an easy way to work when your car is in the main paddock and all the rest of the team miles away.

The 5pm rule is common in Germany: even when you race at 9 in the morning you are not allowed to take the awning down or pack up before the start of the last race. Just to keep the spectators happy. Who are most of the time locals and home after 1 hour. The teams have to travel hundreds of miles to get to the company and then home again. It takes the team 10 hours to get back from blimmin Lausitzring. Where is the sense in that?

But this is my humble view.

[ford prefect]

Originally Posted by john ruston

At least we know who wrote the letter in Motor Racings answer to Hallo

Who is Ford Prefect ?

Pardon? Nickname taken from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams. I enjoy watching all forms of motorsport, the only thing about motorsport that really irritates is rudeness and arrogance of participants.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to "Motor Racings answer to Hallo"

[Peter Mallett]

Autosport.