[LM24 Race] The 76th edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans - RACE THREAD

[henk4]

Originally Posted by rob21

Lola Aston Martin did 239,35km/h and I´m little bit surprised that Dome did only 226,29 km/h.
So we can see that Lola´s Porsche curves avarage speed is close to Audi R10.
I think that big torque of diesels cars help them to accelerate from exits of those curves.

thank you, but Audi has the same torque as Peugeot and yet they only manage times comparable to the Aston? Still a matter of downforce of the coupe bodies?

[sssssssss]

___

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by henk4

thank you, but Audi has the same torque as Peugeot and yet they only manage times comparable to the Aston? Still a matter of downforce of the coupe bodies?

Yes, I think it was clearly the huge downforce of the Peugeot that made the difference. Of course, the balance thing might also be true, but it's obvious - from LMS too - that the 908 had significantly superior downforce to the the R10. Even the additional wing that Audi had on the R10 for Spa and Le Mans was put there to increase downforce at the same level of speed.
It's the downforce that also allowed the higher top speeds of the Pug on the Mulsanne Straight, because on a low downforce setup like that at LM, the boost in terms of speed made a radical difference from the R10. And as the statistics show, they still had more downforce than the Audi.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

Yes, I think it was clearly the huge downforce of the Peugeot that made the difference. Of course, the balance thing might also be true, but it's obvious - from LMS too - that the 908 had significantly superior downforce to the the R10. Even the additional wing that Audi had on the R10 for Spa and Le Mans was put there to increase downforce at the same level of speed.

so in order to provide a certain Henri P. with an answer, it is not only the diesel engine that makes the Peugeot so fast, it is just a bloody good car....(speedwise)

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by henk4

so in order to provide a certain Henri P. with an answer, it is not only the diesel engine that makes the Peugeot so fast, it is just a bloody good car....(speedwise)

Definitely! Audi's engine is at least as good as Peugeot's (and still at around 730 hp). If you looked carefully at the curves' exit, Audi's immediate acceleration was quite obviously more powerful than that of the Peugeot - and that's where you can really see an engine comparison. Audi's aerodynamics weren't up to date with the Peugeots, for sure!

[GT6]

Our we going to see the results of the prediction competition posted?

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by cmk

Because of my relatively young age of 23 and the limitations of when Speedvision started up, I have only been watching Le Mans live since 2001, but that was categorically the best race I have seen. An absolute cracker.

The overall battle was a stormer almost the whole way through. Despite the raw pace advantage of Peugeot, Audi #2 was very impressively driven in the early stages, particularly Allan McNish in his opening quadruple stint. Perhaps the proficiency of the Audi squad in traffic relative to much of the Peugeot squad helped there. When it started to rain, it immediately was apparent to those following the test day that Audi had a shot, and they took it - TK masterful in the dark and the damp. McNish was the perfect person to take that car through the greasy horror show of a drizzly Le Mans dawn. Slick stuff from a team that won on its merits as a team more than on its (admittedly faultless) car.

Or we could just look to Dr. Ulrich and McNish hugging each other with tears in their eyes to say that, for all the years of Ingolstadt juggernaut, Audi #2 was definitely the feel-good winner.

P2 was Porsche perfection. Stuttgart has put a lot of effort into this car and it's been developed by top-class pilots. Wonderful performance. The #34 had a good performance from Van Merksteijn as well as the pros, he's come a long way. Saulnier Pescarolo comes good on its LMS promise, where it always seems to make up places in the race.

GT1 was a precision dogfight of 2-factory quality, so a great effort by Prodrive. The policy of working on race pace came good for Aston Martin despite the 007's hiccup. Top stuff from all 12 factory pilots. If this is a GT1 swansong, well, it will have gone out on top.

GT2 was the story of Porsche eats itself. We knew the gentleman driver + pro combo would blunt their assault, but I did not think it would be taken so literally. The Ferrari brigade had depth and the fact that all 3 tyre manufacturers performed exceptionally well this year should not be overlooked. Great consistent run by Risi - they deserve the monkey off the back at the big one. I woke up to the death of Virgo - absolutely heartbreaking, what a run from a team who proved they are among the best GT teams in the world on Dunlops, no less.

All in all, it had the makings of a classic Le Mans and it provided. Wish I could have been there, this would have been a perfect year for it. It will be interesting to see what next year brings, but if Audi come out with a new P1 weapon, we must wonder whether Peugeot missed their shot. It was a great performance from the French operation, which probably had a top shot at the win if things had stayed dry. I should take nothing away from the Lion's performance, but it was not quite enough.

Finally, while Speed is nice for seeing cars on track live and decent with interviews, a huge debt of gratitude is owed to Radio Le Mans for providing the best picture of the race. Thanks to all the guys and particularly to Paul Truswell for his keen insight around the clock. Great to have him back after the health scare - thanks Paul! (Insert prohibited DSC plug here as well!)

Well while being banned for Hijacking, I didn't know I was DB Cooper, first time THAT has ever happen, whatever. I managed to watch 95% of the race live despite Speed TV's best efforts to ruin coverage with adverts and promos.

Which is a shame because Eurosport didn't run not nearly as many....

I am glad I was able to once again watch it via the internet, had to switch pages in between as coverage moved between Eurosport (the mothership) and Euro2. For those of you watching video on the internet on 19" monitors -

HD coverage was superb (via the internet)

I knew Ferrari would win it, I knew Risi would win it and I knew MELO wouldn't crash the car, so those of you can now EAT a large CROW BURGER with Onions and (I said alot more thought better of it)....

Bruni put in a monster stint in the night and sealed it from Virgo, they had no chance. Nice to see Virgo get on the podium and BMS get on the podium as well.

Ferrari dominated and AF Corse despite a slow start was picking up the pace, as Vilander is very good in the rain, too bad they broke a driveshaft.

Now let's take this momentum and smoke them at Arida and Lime Rock in a few weeks time.

I also knew if it lasted the Van Merksteijn Porsche wouldn't be beaten, almost a 100% error free race and you know for Jos it might just be setting in, he's won the biggest race of his career and proved he still very, very quick, his qualifying time was on the tail end of the P1 cars.

What the hell happen with Porsche in GT2 though???

My goodness it could haven't come at a worst time and even the last Porsche ran into driveline problems and that sealed the all Ferrari finish in GT2.

I was also happy to see the DOME do well and yes Toyota should hand them the contract to build the new hybrid electric car closed car based on this one...

This was Pugs race to loose and they managed to loose it with bungled calls by the management and mistakes by the drivers, though none too bad to prevent them from wining.

They may just win the WAR (LMS) but lost the biggest battle this year and I think it will be a tall task to beat them next season. Only Audi and another OEM has the technology and might to even come close.

Though the DOME and Aston/Lola showed well enough that there might just be some hope for those on a shoestring budget.

Well Done Aston Martin!

GM Racing should be really upset now.... That's 3 wins by Prodrive in 5 years.. Not bad.

I think those cars will be mothballed and you will only see them at Goodwood from now on, the end of an era - GT1

Next year I will be at Le Mans, maybe it won't rain....

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

Our we going to see the results of the prediction competition posted?

If you mean my and Pascal's competition - yes. The calculations are done but Pascal is just double-checlking them for me. They'll be up in full some time over the weekend.

[The Badger]

Hi Ayse ..... did you have a good time , stupid question . The weather was ok by me , just a little rain .

Hows the beer chilling doing then ?

[Aysedasi]

PM sent - before I read your post, funnily enough......

Had a great time, but it was all over far too quickly.......

[lemansfan]

http://s8.directupload.net/file/d/1466/bgv8hr2u_jpg
a picture of the drivers door from the vitaphone aston martin .

regards :lemansfan

[Osella]

I'm too lazy to check - (assuming the info is out there) ....can anyone provide a rough list of the Pug drivers in pace order?

[cmk]

DJ, Virgo did not get a podium in GT2 - the engine died at something like hour 19 or hour 20. BMS was 2nd, Farnbacher 3rd (so still each of Michelin, Pirelli and Dunlop on the podium).

I think Peugeot lost their best shot for a meaningful win. If Audi comes back with a new car (as we know they won't return with the R10) then they should have produced a better car than the 908 by this stage. If they don't, well, the Peugeot win will have even less clout than those works Audi wins, cause in the height of the R8 era there was never such a dramatic pace disparity between works and privateers.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by cmk

If Audi comes back with a new car (as we know they won't return with the R10) then they should have produced a better car than the 908 by this stage.

I'm interested in the basis for that - just because they're Audi?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm interested in the basis for that - just because they're Audi?

that's the law of nature, a car developed 3 years later is supposed to be better

[Aysedasi]

Than a car already developed for 2-3 years?

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm interested in the basis for that - just because they're Audi?

Audi has admitted that they learned a lot over the process of building and running the R10, since they essentially were pioneering the concept of a diesel-powered sportscar, whereas Peugeot had the opportunity to follow them up by at least a year in terms of development cycle, taking the increasing clarity of coupe rules and the chance to observe the R10's strengths and weaknesses into account. They ended up building an extremely high-tech car, of course, but some basic features like improved weight distribution through engine mount and exhaust positioning surely must have been influenced by seeing the issues the back-heavy format of the R10 can cause in certain situations.

Audi now has a previous diesel P1 under its belt and a 2-year jump on the 908 in terms of technology and observation. And yes, they are Audi. They know better than Peugeot what it takes to win Le Mans in this era, and they will doubtless come up with a car that is driver and mechanic-friendly, tough and easily repairable. Furthermore, given that the R10 is a reasonably competitive proposition already, do we have any reason whatsoever to think that if Audi sits down with a clean sheet (and interviews before LM suggests it will be a clean-sheet proto if they go the P1 route), that they won't make a car significantly better than the R10? If they do that, well, they are almost by definition building a car which is better than the 908, at least by a small amount.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Than a car already developed for 2-3 years?

Audi is not exactly known for putting a half-baked car out there (well, excepting the 1999 prototype efforts). When the car hits the track, it will be ready to win.

[Aysedasi]

A lot of logic, I'll give you that, but a lot of supposition too. I guess it's the now very stroing desire in me to see Audi toppled. The saving grace this year at Le Mans was that they really had to work for it. I don't want them arriving with advantages.....

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Than a car already developed for 2-3 years?

that's the period over which the Audi R10 was developed, so if they now decided to come up with a new car it should at least be better in its first year than the current R10...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

A lot of logic, I'll give you that, but a lot of supposition too. I guess it's the now very stroing desire in me to see Audi toppled. The saving grace this year at Le Mans was that they really had to work for it. I don't want them arriving with advantages.....

I share your ulterior motives
(After all I am driving a HDI-Fap powered vehicle...)

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

A lot of logic, I'll give you that, but a lot of supposition too. I guess it's the now very stroing desire in me to see Audi toppled. The saving grace this year at Le Mans was that they really had to work for it. I don't want them arriving with advantages.....

Well, if it is supposition, it is supposition that is strongly informed by evidence from the past. I think this year helped prove that Audi deserves to be on top, though. Maybe if they arrive with near-identical cars and go even more hammer and tongs for 24 hours, may the best one win, that would satisfy your hope? I find it really difficult to imagine them coming up with a new car that is inferior to the 908 in any dramatic way.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by henk4

that's the period over which the Audi R10 was developed, so if they now decided to come up with a new car it should at least be better in its first year than the current R10...

In my naivety, I'm still struggling with this.

This presupposes that every new car is automatically at least as good as it's predecessor. Are we happy that this is always the case - or again, are we happy with this because it's Audi.....?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by cmk

Well, if it is supposition, it is supposition that is strongly informed by evidence from the past. I think this year helped prove that Audi deserves to be on top, though. Maybe if they arrive with near-identical cars and go even more hammer and tongs for 24 hours, may the best one win, that would satisfy your hope? I find it really difficult to imagine them coming up with a new car that is inferior to the 908 in any dramatic way.

you can also say it in another way, if Audi decides to go for a new car, then they certainly know where the R10 has to be improved, and they also know that this cannot be achieved with the current version of the R10...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

In my naivety, I'm still struggling with this.

This presupposes that every new car is automatically at least as good as it's predecessor. Are we happy that this is always the case - or again, are we happy with this because it's Audi.....?

let's face it we are looking at factory developed cars and not some garage builders.....and see my post before...