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31 Jan 2005, 01:37 (Ref:1213475) | #1 | |||
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The Blame Game
Over the last few years here at Ten-Tenths, I've become very frustrated with some members making comments about F1 with total ignorance to the reality of how F1 really works.
Unfortunatley, an uneducated, ill-informed or sensationalist 'Press' seem to compound the problem even further. The mysterious Concorde Agreement (which people quote at will despite nobody ever having read it) adds to the confusion, and off we go here with the "Its all Bernie/Max's fault" comments. Although none of us know the in's and out's of the inner workings, there is one thing that is known as fact, but missed by many a casual poster. I have been searching for the exact format for a while, and found this at Grandprix.com recently. Quote:
Bernie and Max, control 2 votes out of 24. The teams control half of all votes, and that combined with sponsors, engine partners and tyre companies, means they have a pretty big say on how anything turns out. So next time you dont like a rule change, post something with Frank, Jean or Rons name on it. *gets off soapbox* |
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#Keepfightingmichael |
31 Jan 2005, 02:07 (Ref:1213486) | #2 | ||
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this Ecclestone fellow also the holder of many of the commercial rights to this Formula 1 thing? And don't you think that that gives him just a little more influence than his single vote would perhaps indicate?
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31 Jan 2005, 04:00 (Ref:1213511) | #3 | ||
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But Bernie doesn't have to power to force all cars to run with his name on the sidepod.
There are TOO many critics who just jump and mug those guys without making the least effort to see that their accusations are even 10% true Last edited by Gt_R; 31 Jan 2005 at 04:00. |
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Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to." |
31 Jan 2005, 09:08 (Ref:1213597) | #4 | |||
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Quote:
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
31 Jan 2005, 09:28 (Ref:1213602) | #5 | ||
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As a rider to this, the Technical Working Group (TWG - which comprises the technical director of each team) - submits it's recommendations/proposals to the Formula One Commission which then act on them as per Wrex's post.
The FIA also has 'Article 7.5' of the Concorde Agrement at it's disposal which gives it power of Veto. Last edited by Super Tourer; 31 Jan 2005 at 12:20. |
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'I've seen it, but still don't believe it.....' |
31 Jan 2005, 12:20 (Ref:1213714) | #6 | ||
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Still... it does not lessen my argument that some of the rule changes proposed by Max are insane.
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"And the most important thing is that we, the Vettels, the Bernies, whoever, should not destroy our own sport by making stupid comments about the ******* noise." - Niki Lauda |
31 Jan 2005, 12:29 (Ref:1213719) | #7 | ||
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Yes, but the key is that they are proposals not rules. To become rules the rest need to become insane too!
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
31 Jan 2005, 12:40 (Ref:1213726) | #8 | ||
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As I feared - all too plausible then...
Seriously, time served F1 watchers know well that Max's apparently insane suggestions are carefully designed to bring the teams round to some more considered changes. It's a fairly basic tactic - come to a sensible agreement or we might do this - but it seems to work... |
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"Never pick a fight with an ugly person, they've got nothing to lose." |
31 Jan 2005, 12:42 (Ref:1213729) | #9 | ||
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"Become"?
Oh "become insane" for a few minutes, sign on the dotted line, then turn sane again? Last edited by Sodemo; 31 Jan 2005 at 12:43. |
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31 Jan 2005, 12:53 (Ref:1213741) | #10 | ||
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If Dennis or Todt forget to take their pills for a while...
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
1 Feb 2005, 17:48 (Ref:1214789) | #11 | |
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Absolutely great point by Wrex, this one.
People on forums love to dish out blame right left and centre, because they could all do so much cheaper themselves. Everything is either fantastic or awful, there's no grey areas, no middle ground. Entertaining to read, on occasion, though! |
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1 Feb 2005, 18:19 (Ref:1214829) | #12 | |||
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Quote:
Of course they are. This is a forum with thousands of members all of whom (alright, most of whom) have minds of their own and believe what they choose to believe. How many of us have thought (even if its only just once) in our lives that, given the breaks that Schuey or Senna had, well, just maybe we could have been something special in a race car. Dreams and fantasies, its all part of the game, as is the praise, the irritation, the criticism et al. Of course Wrex is right, I have no doubt about that, but don't expect everyone to believe it........... |
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44 days... |
1 Feb 2005, 18:23 (Ref:1214835) | #13 | |
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The number of London taxi drivers who "could've been world champion if I'd had the breaks" rather bears that out
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1 Feb 2005, 18:31 (Ref:1214845) | #14 | ||
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Yep, for sure. That just leaves the likes of me (and many thousands of others) thinking "Sod Bernie" and enjoying a blast around the 1967 Monza in a Lotus 49 more than watching a current GP....... Thank the Lord for "virtual" racing.......
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44 days... |
1 Feb 2005, 21:38 (Ref:1214980) | #15 | |
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Actual Wrex, I think your point is an excellent one. But I don't know whether it's anything to do with our age, but this frustration that you've been aware that's growing is the same one I feel about how we (English?) treat stars and politicians and anyone who makes a name for themselves. We build them up only to take pot-shots at them for ever after in order to destroy them, aiding the sales of loads of newspapers along the way. Bad stories sell better than good.
I think it's rather symptomatic of the English, not completely exclusive to us though. Jealosy and envy are ugly emotions and we're quite bad losers. And then, the web of course is completely democratic which only makes things worse! |
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John M |
1 Feb 2005, 22:31 (Ref:1215036) | #16 | |
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f1 is a personality driven sport...you only have to look on 10-10ths at the amount of threads on technical car related topics as opposed to the amount of "kimi is fat, jv is mental, tgf is the devil incarnate" posts. so rather than the fact that the sport has become too predictable and technologically expensive in its current form...it suits people to have a personality thats ruining everything...thats where bernie and max come in!
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I want you to drive flat out |
2 Feb 2005, 02:08 (Ref:1215131) | #17 | ||
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Bernie and max deserve all the **** they get.
There are no excuses Last edited by Adam43; 2 Feb 2005 at 09:07. Reason: autocensor dodge. |
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2 Feb 2005, 02:15 (Ref:1215134) | #18 | ||
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Bernie and max deserve all the **** they get!!
The 'facts' presented by wrex only tell a tiny part of the story.There is far more to descision making than who controls the voting. There's ALOT of politics as well- (think max's bizzare ideas for new rule's,cancelling meetings at the last moment,'interpreting' rules in odd ways (usually in such a way as to confirm the ferrari conspiracy theories),*and the worst one ever*...holding a meeting at 3am with only favoured delegates present so as to pass the comercial rights to a single person for one hundred years. Last edited by Adam43; 2 Feb 2005 at 09:08. |
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2 Feb 2005, 04:13 (Ref:1215168) | #19 | ||
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Maybe this thread should be closed?
I think this topic has been exhausted. Bottom line, you can't please everybody. Max and Bernie are just doing the best job they can. |
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Part time wingman, full time spud. |
2 Feb 2005, 05:53 (Ref:1215193) | #20 | |
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in other forums it´s allready discussed that .....
"wings - spoilers and flippers should be banned ...safety better racing and overtaking" ..MAX Mosley !! ?? now think about why ... which comission ? who ? just thought about all that .... they will look like formula fords.... with wide tyres ... *smile* ... so what ... if bernie grants therefore 30 cars .... I can remember times when F1 did look like that .... but they had some 20 teams - some 40 drivers - exciting races ... and after they have lost there engines .... so what ..... - the wings have been used anyway only for sponsoring *smile* ... http://www.beepworld.de/memberdateie...ty-conzept.jpg |
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2 Feb 2005, 08:31 (Ref:1215256) | #21 | |
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That made sense...
Wel, not really... |
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2 Feb 2005, 14:35 (Ref:1215552) | #22 | ||
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sorry for the semi double post above
3-E that is ,um, bizzare! Or are you hinting that everyone is talking about how to fix f1 ....? |
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2 Feb 2005, 16:27 (Ref:1215656) | #23 | ||
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I've just posted this in another thread but it's relevent here as well. Have a look at www.fia.com for the recently added list of correspondence between the FIA and teams. It provides an interesting insight into an area of the sport which most of us can only guess at.
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