Healthier Grids 2006?

[MarkG]

Has this year been unusual in having such low grid numbers, excepting Castle Coombe & Oulton of course?? I don't really want to bale out of FF1600 for 2006 but on the other hand I don't fancy racing with so few numbers either.
Is there any hope that grids are going to be fuller next year??

[Tim Draffan]

I have been thinking about that too, it is a shame SOM is not better supported but the obvious reasons/exscuses do not apply to MSV and that is no better, perhaps it is an economic/geographical issue, with the cost of living being higher in the South East compared to the North/West?

I would be interested in the MSV championship for next season but perhaps due to the poor grids this year it may not have such support from MSV, the double header format, entries fees and prize fund are in my opinion to be applauded.

[Ian Sowman]

It is vitally important that contemporary FF1600 does not effectively become confined to the North West and Castle Combe. The obvious solution to this problem - and it is one - is to effectively combine two of the less well-supported championships. Whether that is practically possible is another matter.

Oh, and there are a few other sensible measures that could be introduced too - but that is for another day.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Mark and Tim, drivers need to pass there intention on to the BRSCC (although I know Steve reads these threads).

Someone else (RR?) said there will be 5 drivers from the NW doing MSV next year. If you do it and we can get a couple more which I sure we will that'll be nearly full grids

The current format and prize money is brilliant if this was announced in 2004 I am sure we would have full grids now.

I would love a race a Donington, Silverstone and Rockingham to be added next year but there not MSV owned circuits so combining MSV with SOM would be difficult and probably not the right thing to do.

[Ian Sowman]

If we go back to what JP said when the championship was announced - he would not rule out widening the championship to include other circuits in future. To be honest, MSV could drop the Oulton date as there is already a perfectly well-supported championship running there. I'd probably be against a round at Silverstone - keep that venue for the one-off events that the BRDC do so well.

[Me and My Swift]

Oulten is 1 of the best circuits in the U.K. It would be a major loss to the MSV if it was ever dropped.

[MarkG]

RayFF, I've done a couple of MSV rounds and really enjoyed them. The format is excellent (plus a good deal for your entry fee) but the low grids makes me worry that JP may dis-associate himself from FF next year. Classic FF has excellent grids and although i would consider that c'ship, I would prefer to continue learning my RF90 and getting further up the grid...maybe somewhere so I can at least see Pete's Swift during a race Although I'm sure he will deservedly go on to better things next year.

Like Ian says, there is a solution. I don't know the solution, but there must be one, there are enough cars around. It can't be that Pete blows everyone away and so they don't enter MSV rounds, if it was that, they'd be filling up the SOM grids, and they're not doing that.

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by Me and My Swift

Oulten is 1 of the best circuits in the U.K. It would be a major loss to the MSV if it was ever dropped.

I agree with you that it is a great circuit, but there are already plenty of opportunities to race on it if you so wish. We have to look at the greater good. MSV+SOM have to attract a different competitor base to NW and Combe, and in order to that they need to be racing on circuits in different geographical locations. In my opinion.

[MarkG]

Ian.. how do you enter someone's quote when replying?

[Redracer77]

click on the quote icon on the bottom right

[diz]

Why is MSV continually referred to as a 'some sort of' National FF1600 Championship?

It isn't.


MSV is only the title sponsor of the Southern Regional Series [as Melton Concrete Products is at Combe, or Opal Telecom is at Oulton]

The fact that MSV run four circuits is assumed - by many - to give them some kind of higher status for the Southern Series.

MSV telling BRSCC to make entries ,better value for money, paying prize money etc., is good news, but as a businessman, JP won't continue this support without a marked increase in entry levels and a willingness to travel on behalf of the drivers.

In fact, a major root cause of the SOM / MSV low entry levels is the reluctance of drivers to experiment / travel. I'm sure a SOM calendar at Mallory, Donington, Rockingham, Silverstone and Cadwell [with at least ten different track layouts between them] would have worked 20 years ago, but not now. Five separate one circuit series at these tracks could entice five small core bases of local regulars, but they wouldn't travel 50 miles to take in another track.
The latter isn't an option, the former is the way to do it and if there are only two rounds at a drivers preferred venue, then two races a year it is for them. The numbers would have to come back.
The same would apply in the South with Brands, Snett and Lydden.
Combe is OK as it is, but IMHO would benefit by having odd visits to Pembrey and Thruxton.
NW - again IMHO - should be Oulton, Anglesey, Croft and Cadwell - maybe an odd Knockhill. But that isn't NW I hear you cry. So what?

That moves me on to Diz's solution
1. Northern FF1600 [NW expanded]
2. Southern FF1600 [MSV and SOM combined]
3. South Western FF1600 [Combe plus Pembrey and Thruxton]
4. A proper National FF1600 Championship 8 meetings maximum [with a Kirkistown and / or Mondello], with no regional content [i.e. points scores]
A stumbling block would be club politics.

Having been into race meeting and championship organising for over thirty years, I have seen classes with booming grids die away for a year, or three, before the grids rise again - for no apparent reason. I was asked a few times at today's Oulton test why the North West entry levels are going through the roof. I have absolutely no idea, but am just enjoying it while we have it.

Anyway, back to MSV and SOM. Why not call a meeting for the drivers, who are interested enough to attend, to thrash out what they want and what they would be willing to do / support. It wouldn't do any harm.

[Ian Sowman]

Seeing as you've made your suggestion diz, I will unveil mine.

1) Keep NW as it is. It isn't broke. Don't try fixing it.

2) Keep Combe as it is. Ditto. BARC don't seem interested in having FF1600 at Thruxton or Pembrey, so don't force them to.

BUT as far as possible run NW and Combe rounds on the same date. There is a very minimal crossover between the two sets of drivers so this would not harm the size of the entry for each championship. The other positive side-effect is that it creates more blank weekends.

3) Amalgamate MSV and SOM. This would have more meetings that the other two and trophies could be awarded to a 'Midlands' winner and a 'Southern' winner. Include races at Brands, Snetterton, Cadwell, Mallory, Donington and possibly Rockingham. But not Silverstone.

4) A selection of trophy events: Golden Helmet, Jim Walsh and Walter Hayes at Silverstone; Moose at Oulton; Edwina at Mallory; Carnival at Combe; Festival at Brands.

That would probably do it.

[diz]

A good suggestion from you in the post above Ian. There's nothing like a healthy debate.

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

1) Keep NW as it is. It isn't broke. Don't try fixing it.

To pinch the punch line from a very old joke about the dad catching his son in the bath. "It's mine and I'll wash it as fast as I want to", so if I want to fix my 'unbroken' championship, I'll try to. If things stay the same, they start to decline, so why not give it a go.

[Ian Sowman]

But is that what your drivers want? Perhaps they're to busy psyching themselves up for tomorrow at the moment, but I would be interested to see if they would like more races at other circuits - like Croft.

[Redracer77]

If Oulton became a Northern championship and spread wings to other circuits such as Knockhill, Cadwell etc I wouldn't do it. If I wanted to travel I would do a national championship. I like doing a regional championship and when I fancy it I try other circuits....

Keep North West 80% Oulton Park and 20% Anglesey.

Put MSV and SOM together but make it ONLY 8 meetings as that is what killed MSV this year. Not many FF1600 drivers can be bothered committing to so many rounds and so manys rounds that had back to back weekends

[MikeM]

I think we need to keep NWFF as it is as well. Until this year, when it's been changed it has declined and then built up again. It isn't broken!

[diz]

Why not change things that aren't broken??

Take most drivers. Do they just tip petrol in, kick the tyres and off they go? No, but apologies to the few that do
Most spend an awful lot of time fiddling, tweaking and searching for that elusive tenth of a second. They find it and then start the tweaking process again.

Their car ain't broken, but they continually try to 'fix it'

Keep amending and tweaking the rules, regulations and formats as well. That's what I say.

If it ain't broke, it might not want fixing, but it can sure as hell do with continual improvement, or it will end up needing fixing.

[MikeM]

Ah Diz, but that's tinkering not fixing

[diz]

Originally Posted by MikeM

Ah Diz, but that's tinkering not fixing

Shouldn't you be busy in the garage tinkering right now then, rather than being on tenths?

And do you think that JW will be busy compiling an email to me, as we type?

[StephenRae]

To lure me and I suspect many like me to race at other circuits, the organisers must offer a package including access to the circuit for practice on the previous day. Kirkistown used to attract good FF1600 entries by making a weekend of it.
There is not much point in my going to Croft and expecting any success if I just turn up on the day.

[Redracer77]

I would have to say the more is not always the merrier. What we had this weekend was not fun. Full grids are great but look at the amount of red flags we had....We had 4 red flags in ONE session in testing then 2 in qualifying......How on earth can people call themselves racing drivers when they spin off on the lap out of the pits....!!! We had 4 cars go off for one reason or another on the lap out of the pits....

I would prefer a good grid of 20 than a full grid of 32 if that happend every time.

[MikeM]

You're right Diz, I told Jane I'd sort the car this morning - not made the garage yet and it's the GP soon. Looks like busy afternoon when it's finished!
I'll have to ring John and chase his reply up!

[Walshy]

Afternoon all.

Good day yesterday. Thoroughly enjoyed it and it was a shame about the flat, but **** happens....

Regarding opening up the Championship, I don't mind a bit of travelling, but like Chris H says, he entered a regional Championship to race local. I class Anglesey and Croft as local (ie Within a couple of hours). You could probably throw Donington into that, but Knockhill? Are you having a laugh? I think Brands would be quicker.

I have to say that going to distance races is great if you have good support (ie spare engines, corners etc), but it's a shame to go so far on a trailer and have an engine fault and not be able to do anything about it. At least the "local" circuits, you can nip home for bits that you might need, but can't carry all the time..........

There is also cost. The testing and race entry fees have to drop accordingly. I bet the BRSCC had a very good day in this department yesterday and maybe one way of dictating fees would be like some of the Football clubs. Good turnouts allow them to reduce ticket entry adn this can roll from race to race. With an obvious surplus in the pot from Saturday, that could be reflected in the next meeting. If they are down for the next meeting, then they reflect that accordingly at the next one and so on and so on........... If the drivers knew that by turning out, the race fees would slowly reduce over the season, it would be all the more reason to turn out for every race....

[MarkG]

bummer-- 2 disappointments.
1. Only 8 entries in final instructions for Cadwell this w/e
2. They cancelled testing for single seaters so I have to learn during qualifying!

Think I'll do Oulton all next year

[diz]

Originally Posted by MarkG

bummer-- 2 disappointments.
1. Only 8 entries in final instructions for Cadwell this w/e
2. They cancelled testing for single seaters so I have to learn during qualifying!

Think I'll do Oulton all next year

Good man Mark. Why wait till next year. See you 20th August young man.