[WTCC] Race 7 & 8 - Pau (FRA), 17th May 2009

[FIRE]

The WTCC circus returns to Europe.

[Robbe]

Entry List:
http://www.fiawtcc.com/html/uploaded...ist_France.pdf

Cazenave enters in second Wiechers BMW, Bennani still on, Postiglione missing.

[FIRE]

Great to see Bennani back

[werner]

I think the petrol Seat's will do much better than in Morocco, because their lack of power won't hurt them that much in the flowing corners, and their low weight and good chassis will help. Also the BMW's should do better, because of their lower weight, and their advantage in exiting the supertight hairpin.
Chevy's performances are hard to predict, their good aearodynamics won't help that much as in Marrakech.
Are the definitive penaltyweights already made public somewhere?

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by werner

I think the petrol Seat's will do much better than in Morocco, because their lack of power won't hurt them that much in the flowing corners, and their low weight and good chassis will help. Also the BMW's should do better, because of their lower weight, and their advantage in exiting the supertight hairpin.
Chevy's performances are hard to predict, their good aearodynamics won't help that much as in Marrakech.
Are the definitive penaltyweights already made public somewhere?

From Autosport today;

The three RML Chevrolets will be given the maximum additional compensation weight of 40kg for the next World Touring Car Championship round at Pau next weekend.

The Cruze was the fastest car last weekend in Morocco where it was 60kg lighter than the SEATs and BMWs, with Rob Huff taking pole position and one victory, and Nicola Larini the other win.

It will now carry the same extra weight as both the SEAT Leon TDi and BMW 320si, which were quickest in Brazil and Mexico respectively.

The weights for Pau were determined by the times set in the three previous events, Curitiba, Puebla and Marrakech, and although the SEAT emerged as the quickest car overall, the gap to the BMWs and Chevrolets is small enough to put all three at the same weight.

The remaining cars, the Lada 110, the petrol-powered SEAT Leons and Alex Zanardi's sequential gearbox BMW 320si will have a further 20kg deducted from their minimum weight.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by werner

Are the definitive penaltyweights already made public somewhere?

http://www.fiawtcc.com/html/uploaded..._Pau%20(2).pdf

[helgi]

All that weight games have annoyed! It's not a horse racing.

[helterskelter]

Chevy will also have to remove the plastic windows.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by helgi

All that weight games have annoyed! It's not a horse racing.

At least the 'weight games' are a rule this year, and not just implemented randomly by the organisers. All the teams new how the weights would work before the year, so it's just like the ballast last year.

[helgi]

Horse racing and nothing more. Real horses, real horse racing.

[Robbe]

http://www.fiawtcc.com/Read_News.asp?idnews=154

Cayrolle in a third Sunred SEAT!

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Chevy will also have to remove the plastic windows.

Nope. They have been given dispensation to continue to run them.

Incidentally, a question (for everyone); is there any car in the FIA's own championship (WTCC) that is actually running to the FIA rules??

I believe every car has dispensations and waivers to allow them to run things that are not even in the regulations. If so, then that's really bizarre.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Nope. They have been given dispensation to continue to run them.

Do you have a link as reference to that?
And yes, WTCC is bizzare at times

[awrb]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Incidentally, a question (for everyone); is there any car in the FIA's own championship (WTCC) that is actually running to the FIA rules??

I believe every car has dispensations and waivers to allow them to run things that are not even in the regulations. If so, then that's really bizarre.

There was, but they had to have dispensations so they could keep up with the already dispensated cars, which then had to be dispensated further...

It really is a vicious cycle that seems to be annoying everyone. BMW are now complaining and threatening to pull out. If everyone was running to the same regs, and BMW were behind, it would be their fault and they'd have to improve the car. But now it isn't their fault, it's the organizers.

You have to wonder now, if they took all these stupid waivers off the cars, and let them all run to the regs, where would the cars be in relation to each other?

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Do you have a link as reference to that?

I don't have a link but from Marakesh onwards the Chevvy's are allowed to use plastic side windows and a flat floor. Thats just fact.

So much for their mathmatical calculation of weights etc. It seem they are still giving different cars different dispensations, in addition to the weight calculation.

I thought their mathmatical calculation of lap times was meant to do away with giving these sorts of dispensations through the year?!

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by awrb

You have to wonder now, if they took all these stupid waivers off the cars, and let them all run to the regs, where would the cars be in relation to each other?

Probably about the same as where they are now. They don't use the WTCC dispensations in the BTCC and the competitiveness of the cars is still about the same.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

I don't have a link but from Marakesh onwards the Chevvy's are allowed to use plastic side windows and a flat floor. Thats just fact.

Well, the fact is that you are wrong and Helterskelter is right. No plastic windows for Chevy when they are above minimum weight.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

They don't use the WTCC dispensations in the BTCC and the competitiveness of the cars is still about the same.

?? Are you suggesting BTCC doesnt allow FIA Homologated S2000 cars? And don't BTCC have their own weight lists for cars as well? I know at least the BMWs are 20kg underweight in BTCC relative S2000 regs.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by stedevil

?? Are you suggesting BTCC doesnt allow FIA Homologated S2000 cars?

You fallen into the trap of confusing FIA S2000 rules with WTCC-only technical waivers. They are two seperate things.
The WTCC waivers are differences that they allow from the S2000 homologation for that championship only. They are not changes to the actual FIA homologation.

The BTCC actually follow the FIA S2000 homologations more closely by not allowing all the WTCC technical waivers.
The BMW sequential is the only car that is allowed to run different to the FIA weight, although the WTCC has now also followed and allowed it (i.e. Zanardi) to run even less.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Well, the fact is that you are wrong and Helterskelter is right. No plastic windows for Chevy when they are above minimum weight.

Simple mathmatics; they were given -60kg before Morocco but given +40 for Pau, so they are still -20kg below.
Which means they will still be using them.

Your apology will be accepted.....

[helterskelter]

Actually, Chevys were given a -20 for Morocco. They were -60 compared to BMW and SEAT because:
Chevy -20kgs
BMW +40kgs
SEAT +40kgs
Here is the official weight list for Marrakech, which confirms what I wrote above.

Here is the official Wtcc statement. It reads:

The second decision authorizes the team to replace the front and rear door windows with plastic elements. This last waiver only applies if the cars have no compensation weight on board.

I think the discussion about that can be cleared now

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

The BMW sequential is the only car that is allowed to run different to the FIA weight, although the WTCC has now also followed and allowed it (i.e. Zanardi) to run even less.

Actually, Zanardi's car is +30kgs compared to the H pattern-equipped BMWs. He then got a -60 compared to his teammates after the compensation weight came in. So, the total weight compared to the H patern equipped cars is -30.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

The BTCC actually follow the FIA S2000 homologations more closely by not allowing all the WTCC technical waivers.
The BMW sequential is the only car that is allowed to run different to the FIA weight, although the WTCC has now also followed and allowed it (i.e. Zanardi) to run even less.

I seem to think the Lacetti's in Britain keep the waivers they had in the WTCC as well, or at least they did last year.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Actually, Chevys were given a -20 for Morocco. They were -60 compared to BMW and SEAT because:
Chevy -20kgs
BMW +40kgs
SEAT +40kgs
Here is the official weight list for Marrakech, which confirms what I wrote above.

Here is the official Wtcc statement. It reads:


I think the discussion about that can be cleared now

I stand corrected, thank you.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Actually, Zanardi's car is +30kgs compared to the H pattern-equipped BMWs. He then got a -60 compared to his teammates after the compensation weight came in. So, the total weight compared to the H patern equipped cars is -30.

In the BTCC they allowed -20 for sequential, so the cars are still +10 over the H pattern.