Audi LMP1 Discussion

[TF110]

Its going to rain, theyll need downforce. Porsche stuck with their high downcorce car and still qualified 1-2. Audi can get close but Porsche has the fastest car. Theyll need tire longevity to win in the dry, and even then it might not be enough. But we'll see in the wet.

[chernaudi]

Weather forecasts now suggest that rain should stop by race time, but not soon enough for the track to fully dry.

It should also be noted that with the LM package that Audi had similar tire use to Porsche. In the higher downforce specs earlier this year (at least when carrying more downforce than Porsche), Audi were more efficient with their tires.

Fuji tends to eat tires, and with only 6 sets available, everyone's going to have to double stint at least once. That could be Porsche's downfall, considering that Audi have closed the overall pace/speed gap to almost nothing relative to Nurburgring and COTA.

If Porsche lose pace due to tire wear or trying to save tires, that could be the difference maker.

[TF110]

6 sets altogether or 6 sets of slicks?

[chernaudi]

I'm not sure, but I'm thinking 6 slicks between Qualifying and the Race.

I'm not sure that they have to use the Q tires in this situation.

It also depends on how dry the track is at the start--I'm betting on damp, for sure they'll at least be on intermediates or the hybrid slick intermediate depending on how dry or damp.

[chernaudi]

Bad news: Audi screwed up the strategy big time on the #7 and it seems that on the rain tires they were wishy-washy on lap times in the twilight zone between switching from rain tires to the slick inters, then from the slick inters to full slicks. And Porsche still have some advantage in terms of overall hybrid power.

Good news: Once the track dried, the Audis were for sure rapid and for the last couple of hours were the fastest cars on track. Didn't mean much with all the track position lost during the track's drying phases, though. Also, they do have cars that maybe can fight Porsche now. Fuji wasn't Audi's best track by any means, but they still ran better than I thought that they would, if the track was mostly dry, that is.

[ederss7]

Audi had to do something different if they wanted to win. Unfortunately It didn't work. It looked like Lotterer would catch the Porsches and we would see a good fight for position. Porsche is always one step ahead. And they still gain time on the pit stops.

[chernaudi]

Audi now have a good mix of agility and speed now with this package. They're quick in the twisty bits and have good top speed.

Hopefully, their new 6MJ hybrid system for next year will help with acceleration and being able to have more flexibility with how to deploy their hybrid systems.

Other than the gamble on slicks on the #7 Audi not working, they got shortchained on that full course yellow for the #43 Morgan. If they had fuel range roughly equal to Porsche, that could give them more options on strategy. IMO, it was also odd that they went FCY for the Morgan which only needed to be pushed back so it could complete the turn. I understand it being damp and such, but when the #8 Audi was beached at Spa, it was in a more dangerous position than the Morgan was, and that was handled with a local yellow.

But IMO, Audi sort of let Nurburgring and COTA get away because of the not particularly successful effort with the LM bodywork. This package was as phenomenal at Fuji as the LM package was at Spa and LM, and the old sprint package was at Silverstone.

If they didn't lose so much track position with the strategy call on the #7 and during the transition between different tire types (or if the race was all dry), Audi could've made a race of it, based on the fact that they were insanely fast on a mostly dry track late.

[ederss7]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Audi now have a good mix of agility and speed now with this package. They're quick in the twisty bits and have good top speed.

Hopefully, their new 6MJ hybrid system for next year will help with acceleration and being able to have more flexibility with how to deploy their hybrid systems.

Other than the gamble on slicks on the #7 Audi not working, they got shortchained on that full course yellow for the #43 Morgan. If they had fuel range roughly equal to Porsche, that could give them more options on strategy. IMO, it was also odd that they went FCY for the Morgan which only needed to be pushed back so it could complete the turn. I understand it being damp and such, but when the #8 Audi was beached at Spa, it was in a more dangerous position than the Morgan was, and that was handled with a local yellow.

But IMO, Audi sort of let Nurburgring and COTA get away because of the not particularly successful effort with the LM bodywork. This package was as phenomenal at Fuji as the LM package was at Spa and LM, and the old sprint package was at Silverstone.

If they didn't lose so much track position with the strategy call on the #7 and during the transition between different tire types (or if the race was all dry), Audi could've made a race of it, based on the fact that they were insanely fast on a mostly dry track late.

I wasn't looking at the live timing, did Audi have the pace to fight for victory if they hadn't screwed their tyre strategy?

[chernaudi]

They kept losing pace every time the track dried out enough to where it was borderline to switch to the next level up in terms of wet vs dry tires, though when the track was full wet and full intermediate, Audi had the edge in pace. And when the track was full dry the last couple of hours, they really did drop the hammer to the point where on the final restart the #7 Audi was probably about to get back on the lead lap until that deal with the Porsche GT car.

I also think that Porsche were pushing to make sure that either the #17 could get close enough to do the team orders switch or the #18 would have a big enough lead that it couldn't work (it seemed that both were racing for what they could get until the #18's penalty).

But it seemed that for sure in the dry those last couple of hours that the Audis seemed to be quite a bit quicker than Porsche in the dry. After all, they were running 1:26s pretty frequently and were the only cars to get into the 1:25's.

[Artur]

I remember when Lotterer took over, he was on slick intermediates, and was faster than the Porsches for most of the stint. But, then, towards the end of it, his tyres seems to have worn and the #17 caught up with him, overtook and opened quite some gap(13s, IIRC)

In that particular condition was very difficult to compare the cars as the Porsches were on treaded intermediates. It seemed more like slick intermediates suits initally better(first 30min or so) in those wet, but not soaked, conditions while the proper intermediates performs far better towards the end(last 15 min)

I'm confident on this Audi aero package for China. I think they will confortably beat Porsche there, if it's dry.

[ederss7]

I'm not too confident. My bet is that Porsche will still win the remaining races, even dominating them. It seems like Audi can't use the full potential of their tyres.

[500]

I think Porsche went with their HD package to play it safe with the forecast uncertain conditions which may have traded off some of the ultimate pace in the dry. I really thought Audi was going to win this one. I do think we should have two close and interesting races to round out the season.

[chernaudi]

Audi had a noticeable advantage over Porsche when it was full on wet, full on intermediate condition, and dry enough to run slicks. What cost Audi time was when it was borderline between full rain/intermediate and intermediate/slicks. I think that might have been a consequence of Audi being set up more for dry weather and they were overheating the rain tires when it was marginal for using full rains or intermediates before jumping up to intermediates and slicks respectively.

On slicks, the Audi performance was much more consistent across a tire run. I think that this was in large part because it only rained on Sunday, and not knowing the combination of the new aero package and suspension setting for wet weather. If Audi did test this package at Magny Cours and/or COTA, it was dry during those three days that they stayed at each track. That, or Audi were hoping that it would've dried out faster.

If it was dry, and if not for that full course yellow that allowed the #18 Porsche to get almost a free pit stop over both Audis and the #17 Porsche, it would've been closer, and the #7 Audi team could've skipped the too early gamble on full slicks.

But we have to remember that Audi too were running V-maxes in excess of what they were doing at Spa with the LM aero, but with more downforce with this package (Spa's sectors 1 & 3 don't have straights in the accepted sense, but those sections have flat out sections that are nearly, if not, more than a mile long). Porsche's top speed figures with their HD package were also similar to what the LM packages were capable of at Spa.

This should bode well for Audi at Shanghai and Bahrain, provided that it doesn't rain and change back and forth between wet and dry, and in between. Of course, with Bahrain being a desert, it's doubtful that it'll really rain there. Shanghai could be a bit of a crapshoot, though rain is relatively rare there this time of year it seems.

[chernaudi]

An Audi Sport video that Allan McNish did pretty much confirms why Audi lost ground in the middle of the race: they simply though that the track would dry faster than it did during the race.

I also believe that Audi gambled a bit too much on a dry set up, which did no favors for the rain tires.

[chernaudi]

Latest on diesel-gate:

Volkswagen Group will push diesel technology in the NA and EU markets with technologies such as Bosch Denoxtronic and AdBlue as soon as they can fit it to new and recently built (and recalled) vehicles.

VAG are also pushing to expand their high efficiency gasoline and diesel technologies and are trying to rapidly expand their hybrid portfolio.

I'd have to believe that Audi and Porsche's racing programs will be at the fore-front of this as R&D projects for new generation hybrid tech.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Latest on diesel-gate:

Volkswagen Group will push diesel technology in the NA and EU markets with technologies such as Bosch Denoxtronic and AdBlue as soon as they can fit it to new and recently built (and recalled) vehicles.

VAG are also pushing to expand their high efficiency gasoline and diesel technologies and are trying to rapidly expand their hybrid portfolio.

I'd have to believe that Audi and Porsche's racing programs will be at the fore-front of this as R&D projects for new generation hybrid tech.

You missed the main thing! .

- The next generation Phaeton will be pure electric.
- The MQB platform will receive accelerated development to enhance the capacity of Plug-in hybrids (200km electric range) and pure electric (500km range).
- An MEB toolkit, will be developed to ensure a long range, cost effective electric drive is available for compact and commercial vehicles.

The first pure electric LMP1 racers will be here soon...

The full press release on the future strategic decisions for the Volkswagen brand:
https://www.volkswagen-media-service..._auth=zkVBpd9v

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by CTD

The first pure electric LMP1 racers will be here soon...

Define "soon" ?

If you mean fifty years from now, I don't care that much

[deggis]

Originally Posted by CTD

The full press release on the future strategic decisions for the Volkswagen brand:
https://www.volkswagen-media-service..._auth=zkVBpd9v

"Investments are to be reduced by some one billion euros per year", but that's also specific to VW, not VAG.

ps. That press release sounds like... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV_UG60dD4

[bckf]

Originally Posted by CTD

The first pure electric LMP1 racers will be here soon...

Will they change car at every pit stop instead of refueling it? So, how many chassis for Le Mans?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bckf

Will they change car at every pit stop instead of refueling it? So, how many chassis for Le Mans?

I suspect we'll eventually see a quick change battery system in motorsport.

[Coach Ep]

How about that fast charging system that Drayson was trying to develop?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I suspect we'll eventually see a quick change battery system in motorsport.

We are getting quicker and quicker charge times for batteries though, Porsche's new electric concept claims to have an optimum charging time from empty to full of about 10-15 minutes.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

We are getting quicker and quicker charge times for batteries though, Porsche's new electric concept claims to have an optimum charging time from empty to full of about 10-15 minutes.

Agreed! I think we'll see a combination eventually. Run a full race on only 2 batteries, with charging of the second battery happening whilst the first battery is in the car. Quick swap the battery and then do a full charge over a stint. We're getting to that point. I'll be sad to see the internal combustion engine to go.

[bckf]

Yeah, it only was one my bad jokes about Formula E (I can't stand that thing, honestly).
Another interesting thing to see will be how improvements in ERS will factor in the length of the stints.
However I can't understand all the push for the complete replacement of the ICE. Taking the marketing value out of the equation (something I shouldn't be doing I guess), it should still be a rather convenient option for a range extender at least.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by deggis

"Investments are to be reduced by some one billion euros per year", but that's also specific to VW, not VAG.

ps. That press release sounds like... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV_UG60dD4

Doesn't all coorporate PRs sounds like that?!

From the comments:
"Al? My manager wants to have a word with you, he wants to know how you got the transcript of his last speech." 138 ups

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I suspect we'll eventually see a quick change battery system in motorsport.

Yup, and in Sweden they already do that for street cars, or, at least, in some few places there.

Does ACO have plans to extend the ERS allowance? I mean, what if the teams would have the technological ability to harvest more than 8MJ over a LM lap, at any point in the near future?

Porsche is allowed to harvest 5MJ at a place like CotA, already. F1s can only do 4.2MJ(don't know if could more or reg restricts).

WEC should be in the frontline of tech development. This is what will keep the VAGs bros there.