Building a saloon car for racing

ericthehalfbee · 17 May 2010, 17:42 (Ref:2692704)

I want to build a track car, for track days and racing. It wont be that competitive and it needs to be road legal but as its something I have always wanted to do and now have the time and money to do it, i just thought what the hell....i ma looking at some car prep bits but is there really any point in building a car with just a bolt-in six point cage rather than spending the extra couple of hundred quid and buying a weld-in multipoint cage?

I am looking at the costs of building a saloon car and although I have a few car choices (MG ZR, Puma), one (Clio 172) is a bit more expensive than the rest and I would either need to save a bit more and wait a while or buy one and fit a six point cage. Obviously if I bought the cheaper car option it could have a much stronger multipoint cage but it seems pointless when it only means waiting a month or two for the preferred option?.... buying a six point cage for the car - whatever i buy - just seems odd. I think I have answered my own question!....

**Tim Falce** · 17 May 2010, 18:05 (Ref:2692723)

Welcome to 10 tenths Eric, I have to ask

Is this wretched demi-bee,
Half-asleep upon my knee,
Some freak from a menagerie?
No! It's Eric the half a bee!

big andy · 17 May 2010, 18:41 (Ref:2692753)

Is this wretched demi-bee,
Half-asleep upon my knee,
Some freak from a menagerie?
No! It's Eric the half a bee!

no more beer for this man

grichie87 · 17 May 2010, 20:01 (Ref:2692804)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Welcome to 10 tenths Eric, I have to ask

Is this wretched demi-bee,
Half-asleep upon my knee,
Some freak from a menagerie?
No! It's Eric the half a bee!

Singing one two three......

Tim Wilkinson · 17 May 2010, 21:27 (Ref:2692862)

Don't build it..... buy it ready done!

There's so many "trackday" cars around now, and for some their value is barely above a standard car.

Get onto the owner's club sites and find out what bits are recommended (I think Yozza will know what's what with Clios, he's been doing bits for them for ages), and then get onto thedreadedebay or a classifieds site and see what pops up in your budget. That way you know what you're getting (ish), it costs what it looks like it'll cost (building it yourself never does that!), and it's a darn sight quicker!!

kjw · 18 May 2010, 09:06 (Ref:2693128)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Don't build it..... buy it ready done!

That is very good advice and it will save you a fortune.

andy97 · 18 May 2010, 12:00 (Ref:2693250)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjw

That is very good advice and it will save you a fortune.

& time & energy.

ericthehalfbee · 18 May 2010, 19:54 (Ref:2693521)

i know exactly what you are saying with regards to money, time, energy, but in all honesty, none of these are that much of an issue. that is to say i have enough to build the car to a reasonable spec commensurate with my driving ability, i have all the time i need and i have the energy and some friends happy to assist. in short, i just want to bugger about with a car for a while....

so, back to the original question, why do people bother with 6 point bolt in cages and why fit one instead of a multipoint weld in? i can understand cost and weight but is that all?

big andy · 18 May 2010, 20:07 (Ref:2693532)

a multi point cage by its self will make you go know quicker you would be better of spending your money on suspension/brakes on a budget build more seconds per buck

andy97 · 18 May 2010, 20:27 (Ref:2693540)

Quote:

Originally Posted by big andy

a multi point cage by its self will make you go no quicker you would be better of spending your money on suspension/brakes on a budget build more seconds per buck

I admit that i have never built my own car but I have driven cars with both welded in Multi-Point cages (Fiat Uno & Alfa 33) and bolt in cages (Pug 205) that were all otherwise to a similar spec, ie production racing or stock hatch spec.

The cars with multi-point cages were so much stiffer and handled far better as a result. I would argue the exact opposite to bigandy, you need a stiff shell to get the suspension to work properly & theres no point in spending money on suspension & brakes if the shell is likely to flex.

Cars with multi point cages are not only safer but will handle better than a car with a bolt in job. A multi point cage IMHO is actually a performance enhancement mod in its own right.

big andy · 18 May 2010, 20:46 (Ref:2693552)

yes but is it worth spending upto 5 times more than a bolt in cage you will get better reduction in lap times by spending your money on suspension/brakes beleive me i have done it .if its a no cost build then yes a full multi point job built in to a shell is the way but not on a budget its a waste of money ! unless you can do all the work yourself

davyboy · 18 May 2010, 20:53 (Ref:2693558)

Eric you will spend a helluva lot of money 'reinventing the wheel' and learning the hard way so to speak by building the car from scratch. A cheaper and better option would be buy to something already built, dismantle it and rebuild it. That way, you'll learn a lot about how the thing was put together and by renewing/improving the parts, you'll have something a lot better in the end.

leecostelloracing · 22 May 2010, 13:15 (Ref:2695945)

i built loads of impreza track cars thats all i mostly do here the lads who come here say there best cheap option to racing cheaply theres lots parts about an lots of options available too?

i build cages in them for 800 good cds tubing welded into the car one lad said the handling was tormenting some porsches out at oulton park so hmmm
whos know trial an error or???

get something really crap like a yugo slam a cossie init some how then space frame round it an hope for the best hahah ok well why not??

grichie87 · 23 May 2010, 20:55 (Ref:2696745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

i know exactly what you are saying with regards to money, time, energy, but in all honesty, none of these are that much of an issue. that is to say i have enough to build the car to a reasonable spec commensurate with my driving ability, i have all the time i need and i have the energy and some friends happy to assist. in short, i just want to bugger about with a car for a while....

so, back to the original question, why do people bother with 6 point bolt in cages and why fit one instead of a multipoint weld in? i can understand cost and weight but is that all?

I built several cars from scrach, just throw £50 notes down the toilet, get a car that is mostly done and put your own stamp on it, trust me that is a lot of buggering about. Weld in or bolt same thing bolt it in then weld it to the car to make it work. Dont re invent the wheel. You will spend £10k on the car and the sell it for £3k 3 years later after spending £5k extra fixing it, learn the lesson

ericthehalfbee · 23 May 2010, 21:29 (Ref:2696763)

hmmm, getting a strong message here! thanks for the help....where do I start looking for half finished/unwanted track projects other than pistonheads, racecarsdirect, raced and rallied, fast road and track, ebay.....

ScoopJumps · 23 May 2010, 21:54 (Ref:2696782)

I found loads of good cars by looking at owners/modifiers clubs forums. There is a forum for pretty much every sporty model of car you can think of. Only bummer is for many of the forums you do have to sign up first before you can look at their 'for sale' section which is a pain.

I ended up finding a car which was used for sprinting and just needed a few bits doing to it to get it ready for circuit use like fitting extinguisher, electrical cut off etc.

grichie87 · 23 May 2010, 22:24 (Ref:2696809)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

hmmm, getting a strong message here! thanks for the help....where do I start looking for half finished/unwanted track projects other than pistonheads, racecarsdirect, raced and rallied, fast road and track, ebay.....

Race cars get built and rebuilt many times in there lifetime just like Triggers broom, dont be the one to get the bill. Its cool to build the car from scratch but expensive and a real headache, the sites you are looking at are good just be patient. Check race, rally and rallycross, track day and fast road, wait fo some cock to spend the big

bucks the move in!!!

GORDON STREETER · 25 May 2010, 17:43 (Ref:2698032)

I have only just seen this thread, but I would certainly agree with those that have advised buying one already done.
If you happen to have a money tree in your garden or have won the national lottery then fine go ahead, or like myself that have collected enough bits over many years that I can almost build a car with very little outlay except time.
If of course you want to do just sprints or trackdays you can do it in a road car, but a purpose built front running race car to build from scratch will cost a fortune even if you get the shell for nothing.

midgetman · 27 May 2010, 07:35 (Ref:2699042)

Presumably the market'll self adjust? We all rush out and buy pre-built cars and the prices rise and at some time in the future "perceived wisdom" says that it's cheaper to build your own car and it all swings the other way

IMO if you enjoy building a car do it, if you don't know where to start buy one. TBQH any "abandoned project" will have been abandoned for a reason and will probably cost a fortune to correct the faults. And if you buy a car, there's no guarantee it's exactly the same as when it won its last race. Let's face it, there's no such thing as cheap motor racing!

Burp · 28 May 2010, 20:35 (Ref:2700134)

I have to aggree with everyone else, buying one already built has to be the way to go, there will be plenty of things you can 'play' with or change to suit how you want your car to be if you want to get your hands dirty.

I say this having recently finished a bare shell build of a Clio 172 into a race car. I wouldnt want to post what it has cost in case the wife sees. It took us ovr 9 months and ive lost count of the number of times we almost burnt it after frustrating days.

Now were racing tho its all been worth it. But looking back we could of been racing 8 monts ago had we just gone out and bought something.

Thats where the fun is, not the build

have a look here if you fancy a read......

Burpspeed.com

911thillclimber · 3 Jun 2010, 06:24 (Ref:2703621)

I am one of those that built his own car, but not right from scratch.

I wanted a Sports Libre for hillclimbing, over 2 litre 'cause i like big engines in small cars.

i bought a straight rolling chassis Lola t 492 sports 2000 racer off the internet.
Enginerred a Porsche 3.2L engine and all the trimmings to it over a 14 month intense build.

It cost a fortune, nearly drove me to suicide but i have something which is a one-off and probably useless to anyone else!

However i do like the engineering bit, and the driving bit second.

Unless you REALLY want to DIY a race car of any sort, sve and check all the usual sites and buy on on the button, ready to race and eligable for a series you want to chase.

You can then spend nothing or a little later.

Remember: the car is being sold for a reason, so be sure what that is first.

Good luck.

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