Group A Rover SD1/Vitesse Rally History (sep from main thread)

[KA]

Quite a rare pic-it doesn't really need much introduction....
1984, Tony Pond, Knowsley Park...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiendlynne/4236873494/

[Red Throbber]

Superb shot!
I had a quick scan of the chaps other photo's, and found this one, that I don't think we've seen before either.

[MG Rover Sport]

Looks like Tony Pond on the 1985 Tudor Webasto Manx International Rally - before he stuffed it! Thanks for the contribution.

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

Quite a rare pic-it doesn't really need much introduction....
1984, Tony Pond, Knowsley Park...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiendlynne/4236873494/

From the same source, another one...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiend...n/pool-group_a

plus, as a bonus, Bob Fowden in the 'Owens' car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiend...n/pool-group_a

and Mike Stuart, 1985 National Breakdown
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4577749...7623130042249/

[mgmetro6r4]

Hi I was looking at the Rover SD1 SWB . I made some phone calls to X Rover compertitions Dpt persons he said that the were probley built at Gatrag . I would like to know more as I have just been looking at one also what happend to the Paris Dakar car that had Metro 6R4 bits on .if you just know a little just tell all this Interesting

[pressi]

Just having a look through the blogs and noticed there was some interest in the SD1 seen in Oldham, it belongs to my father. I think he would be interested in selling as he no longer competes. I am in Sydney, Oz, but will pass your details onto him if you are interested. I was the daughter in the Motor Factors... small world!

[chunterer]

Belated welcome's to mgmetro6r4 and pressi!

There's discussion of these rare mongrels back in the thread, although to be fair this thread covers rallying but is intended to be more a dicsussion about the Group A racing cars of the period.

I was thinking of separating the rallying stuff out into a separate thread but it might take some time!

However any contributions are welcome I reckon.

[DPUZEY]

Slightly off topic, however the restoration of one of the Rally Sprint Group A Vitesses is nearly complete. The car (A480WOE) which was used by Russell Gooding has been restored in 'Servis' red, white and blue livery and hopefully will be in action on the Slowly Sideway's stage at Race Retro on 13th and 14th March

[MG Rover Sport]

Not one little bit off topic DPUZEY! - if you have the time (or inclination) to look back through all 79 pages, you will find quite a few references to the rally spec cars, including the Rallyspint versions.

Pleased that you have finished the restoration, and I cannot wait to see it at Race Retro - see you there!

[MG Rover Sport]

The ex-Russell Gooding Servis sponsored Group A rallycar A480 WOE has now been fully restored and was out for the first time at 2010 Race Retro at Stonleigh over the weekend - and apparently it's absolutely stunning!...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimmy512/4433081520/

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

The ex-Russell Gooding Servis sponsored Group A rallycar A480 WOE has now been fully restored and was out for the first time at 2010 Race Retro at Stonleigh over the weekend - and apparently it's absolutely stunning!...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimmy512/4433081520/

Very nicely done- good to see that restored

[MG Rover Sport]

I didn't go KA - much to my annoyance! - but I gather the Servis livery / graphics are actually hand-painted as they would have been for the period, none of this 2010 vinyl cut lettering rubbish!

[MG Rover Sport]

Just quickly mate as I'm off t' pub in a couple of minutes, but there's a few of the rally car at Race Retro on flickr - sorry for not being as helpful as you have come to expect from me!

Hic...

[MG Rover Sport]

Did you find any then mate?

If not, try these...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimmy512/4433081520/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11870020@N08/4446755041/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dariocarbone/4439229743/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darioca...7623634012784/

...although there weren't as many action photos as I'd thought.

[MG Rover Sport]

Seemingly, yet another short wheelbase Rover Vitesse rallycar has come to light > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROVER-V8-SD1-V...item2306b1554a

Anything else you care to tell us about, Skip?

[MG Rover Sport]

Here are a couple of photos of the ex-Austin Rover Middle East Rally Team recce car A377 VUK at the recent World Cup 40th Anniversary event at Gaydon. The car was more recently used by Phillip Young on the 1985 Himalayan Rally.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stanner...7623890248898/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stanner...7623890248898/

Here are more details of the Midlle Eastern programme...

http://www.roversd1club.net/features...e-ianlines.asp

[KA]

David, that's a brilliant find- Someone earlier in the thread mentioned hearing of an ex-works car with Himalayan history for sale, and I'd wondered if it was the same car...

So re-reading the Del Lines piece, the Middle East cars were A377VUK (recce car), A379VUK (Tony Pond)- both ex-rallysprint cars IIRC- and A683NJO (Abdullah Omar)
All three rallied by Del Lines/Atlantic Garages after return to the UK, sometimes with Lines' personal registration plate SYB111L (note the 911 pic at the top of the article)

'377' sold to Philip Young/Unipart for the Himalayan Rally
'379' shunted and rebuilt into a Bastos race shell, later sold to Duncan Holder- who still has it I think?
'683' sold to Nick Moore- any idea of its' subsequent rally career, and does it survive?

We know the ex-Russell Gooding 'Servis' car A480WOE is still around, do any of the others- particularly the Computervision cars survive? B564AOX went to Gordon Smith in Scotland, but where after that? and B565AOX is mentioned in the article you linked to as passing through Del Lines' hands, along with an ex-Bathurst Mobil race car (wonder if the Mobil car is the car later used by Dave Carvell in the BTCC?)

I've recently been looking through old Autosports, and have seen a couple of ads from Del Lines advertising the Middle Eastern cars around 1986/7-ish I think? I'll look them out again

Just a bit off-topic, I'm trying to remember how many times Philip Young did the Himalayan Rally in the 80's- Unipart were usually the sponsor. From memory I can think of

• 1980: Morris Minor- UYU741F- ex-Archbishop of Canterbury car- now at Beaulieu http://www.thecarmuseum.co.nz/index....g2_itemId=2052
• 1981 or 82?: Austin Healey 3000- 2754DK- ex-works car (think it was re-registered by orginal post-works owner the late Derek Astle- I don't recall the original plate without looking it up)- in the collection at Gaydon last time I saw it
• 1983: Triumph TR8- ex-works HRW250V- also at Gaydon IIRC (must be a good 10 years since I was last there?)
• 1984? Skoda 130L or LR- B300PVF- recently found a pic in an old CCC magazine.
• 1985: Rover SD1- ex-works A377VUK

Got a vague recollection of a Range Rover at some point as well?

[corliss]

Originally Posted by KA

David, that's a brilliant find- Someone earlier in the thread mentioned hearing of an ex-works car with Himalayan history for sale, and I'd wondered if it was the same car...

So re-reading the Del Lines piece, the Middle East cars were A377VUK (recce car), A379VUK (Tony Pond)- both ex-rallysprint cars IIRC- and A683NJO (Abdullah Omar)
All three rallied by Del Lines/Atlantic Garages after return to the UK, sometimes with Lines' personal registration plate SYB111L (note the 911 pic at the top of the article)

'377' sold to Philip Young/Unipart for the Himalayan Rally
'379' shunted and rebuilt into a Bastos race shell, later sold to Duncan Holder- who still has it I think?
'683' sold to Nick Moore- any idea of its' subsequent rally career, and does it survive?

We know the ex-Russell Gooding 'Servis' car A480WOE is still around, do any of the others- particularly the Computervision cars survive? B564AOX went to Gordon Smith in Scotland, but where after that? and B565AOX is mentioned in the article you linked to as passing through Del Lines' hands, along with an ex-Bathurst Mobil race car (wonder if the Mobil car is the car later used by Dave Carvell in the BTCC?)

I've recently been looking through old Autosports, and have seen a couple of ads from Del Lines advertising the Middle Eastern cars around 1986/7-ish I think? I'll look them out again

Just a bit off-topic, I'm trying to remember how many times Philip Young did the Himalayan Rally in the 80's- Unipart were usually the sponsor. From memory I can think of

• 1980: Morris Minor- UYU741F- ex-Archbishop of Canterbury car- now at Beaulieu http://www.thecarmuseum.co.nz/index....g2_itemId=2052
• 1981 or 82?: Austin Healey 3000- 2754DK- ex-works car (think it was re-registered by orginal post-works owner the late Derek Astle- I don't recall the original plate without looking it up)- in the collection at Gaydon last time I saw it
• 1983: Triumph TR8- ex-works HRW250V- also at Gaydon IIRC (must be a good 10 years since I was last there?)
• 1984? Skoda 130L or LR- B300PVF- recently found a pic in an old CCC magazine.
• 1985: Rover SD1- ex-works A377VUK

Got a vague recollection of a Range Rover at some point as well?

Pretty sure it was 377 that i almost bought, it was immediatly after the Himalayan rally, still covered in dust, could kick myself for not buying it, though i was looking for a circuit car at the time. If I recall correctly when i looked at it it had a 4.2 engine on Webers and a ZF box.
Skip

[corliss]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Seemingly, yet another short wheelbase Rover Vitesse rallycar has come to light > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROVER-V8-SD1-VITESSE-SWB-RALLY-CAR_W0QQitemZ150436140362QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item2306b1554a

Anything else you care to tell us about, Skip?

This one has me scratching my head, at first i thought it was an 83/84 build, possibly by Gartrac, so well built you cannot find the point the shell was shortened. But i started digging and found it is actually a Series 1 shell, Pre 81, there are subtle differences, also it carries NO vin number, so obviously built from a brand new shell, i wonder was it one of the BL Davenport era cars shortened? Someone somewhere must have seen it rallied through the 80`s and 90`s.
Skip

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by corliss

Pretty sure it was 377 that i almost bought, it was immediatly after the Himalayan rally, still covered in dust, could kick myself for not buying it, though i was looking for a circuit car at the time. If I recall correctly when i looked at it it had a 4.2 engine on Webers and a ZF box.
Skip

Many thanks for your thoughts Skip. I trust you are keeping well? You've been a bit quiet recently - have you been busy with the Marlboro car?

Apparently the owner of A377 VUK that has had it recently restored by Tony Fowkes (?) is the one and only Philip Young himself! Here is another photo of the car at Gaydon - what a cracker, eh...

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by corliss

This one has me scratching my head, at first i thought it was an 83/84 build, possibly by Gartrac, so well built you cannot find the point the shell was shortened. But i started digging and found it is actually a Series 1 shell, Pre 81, there are subtle differences, also it carries NO vin number, so obviously built from a brand new shell, i wonder was it one of the BL Davenport era cars shortened? Someone somewhere must have seen it rallied through the 80`s and 90`s.
Skip

There's another guy from the Isle of Man who's supposed to have bought an ex-factory short wheelbase car recently. I really do not know what to make of them really. I think we've all heard rumours and stories about the factory trying them, but haven't ever seen anything as solid evidence yet.

I'm not for one minute doubting the stories, but it just seems strange that there isn't any period evidence or photos of them anywhere?

The only guy that I know that had one for sure was Duncan Jaffray in Scotland. He cut down the ex-Ken Wood Golden Wonder sponsored rallycar OOC 272X - but I gather that was written off long ago.

The truth will come out in the end for sure - it always does.

[corliss]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Many thanks for your thoughts Skip. I trust you are keeping well? You've been a bit quiet recently - have you been busy with the Marlboro car?

Apparently the owner of A377 VUK that has had it recently restored by Tony Fowkes (?) is the one and only Philip Young himself! Here is another photo of the car at Gaydon - what a cracker, eh...

Thanks for your noticing my absence, somehow, somewhere on my travels i managed to pick up a strain of meningitis, but i actually enjoyed the forced hospital stay, but up and about again.
In the process of building a GrpA replica, will be for sale when complete, also have the last 2 New shells awaiting the same tratment. sadly the poor old Grp1 race car is on the back burner for a while, although recently i found an original Brand New rear spoiler for the 81/82 Grp1 cars, so thats the last piece of the jigsaw to convert back to original race trim.
Just sold some GrpA bits to a guy in Finland who has one of Kurt Thim`s DTM Rovers, he also confirmed that the last DTM Rover is definately in the BMW Museum in Munich.
Had an Email from a guy that has yet another SWB car and an Ex race car that was painted in Computorvision colours, no info on whether it was a works shell or not, will dig,
Skip

[MG Rover Sport]

Sorry to hear you've been unwell mate - trust you're on the way back to a full recovery now. It's horrible when your ill and I suppose a small consolation is that someone noticed your absence! Think how disappointed you'd be if I hadn't mentioned it at all - LOL!

The guy you mentioned with the SWB car and the ex-race car is the guy in the Isle of Man I think. I know his name, but I'd prefer not to state it in public just yet. When he's ready to tell us all about it I'm sure he will.

All the best, David

[corliss]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Sorry to hear you've been unwell mate - trust you're on the way back to a full recovery now. It's horrible when your ill and I suppose a small consolation is that someone noticed your absence! Think how disappointed you'd be if I hadn't mentioned it at all - LOL!

The guy you mentioned with the SWB car and the ex-race car is the guy in the Isle of Man I think. I know his name, but I'd prefer not to state it in public just yet. When he's ready to tell us all about it I'm sure he will.

All the best, David

Hi, dont think its our friend from the IOM, the ex race car has a twin turbo 4.2 fitted at moment, and the SWB car is fitted with all the parts from the Ex Ken Wood Golden Wonder car, no info on what shell was used, but i have a ph contact so will see what i can find out.
Seems to be that there are quite a few SWB cars lurking around, who built them and WHY? I have heard stories of Rally Raid cars around the Davenport Austin Rover era, but always assumed they were normal production length?
We ran our SWB car at Mondello in the RallyCross Championship just to see how it went last year, they would not let it run as a rally car as it had wrong tyres, so it got stuck with the purpose built all out rallyCross cars, and it did damn well, handled perfectly but had a real problem with No rear brakes, held of a few 500bhp cars, so obviously works well enough on the rough stuff.
Going to keep the shell and restore it, as one day we may all find out where these cars came from!
Anyone watched the video`s yet?
Skip

[KA]

Originally Posted by corliss

Hi, dont think its our friend from the IOM, the ex race car has a twin turbo 4.2 fitted at moment, and the SWB car is fitted with all the parts from the Ex Ken Wood Golden Wonder car, no info on what shell was used, but i have a ph contact so will see what i can find out.
Seems to be that there are quite a few SWB cars lurking around, who built them and WHY? I have heard stories of Rally Raid cars around the Davenport Austin Rover era, but always assumed they were normal production length?
We ran our SWB car at Mondello in the RallyCross Championship just to see how it went last year, they would not let it run as a rally car as it had wrong tyres, so it got stuck with the purpose built all out rallyCross cars, and it did damn well, handled perfectly but had a real problem with No rear brakes, held of a few 500bhp cars, so obviously works well enough on the rough stuff.
Going to keep the shell and restore it, as one day we may all find out where these cars came from!
Anyone watched the video`s yet?
Skip

Like David suggested a few posts back, the car with the bits from the Ken Wood/Golden Wonder car in a shortened shell sounds like the Duncan Jaffray car- a magazine article about the Jaffray SWB Rover was posted a while back- http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=624

Apparently Jaffray wrote the ex-Wood car off in a big end-over-end shunt. He rebuilt it into a SWB shell cut down from a low-mileage road car, but was never totally happy with the car, and rebuilt it again, this time cutting down a spare shell that came as part of the deal to buy the original car from Ken Wood- are we talking about a 'works' shell here I wonder?

In the article, Jaffray says they'd built the cut-down car in an effort to make the car more manageable- he'd found the original a bit of a handful:
'it was so big, you'd just be getting it sorted from one slide, when you'd be heading for another ditch...One of them (the crew) said I'd be alright if the car was a little bit smaller- I'd gained a bit of a reputation for putting it in the ditch- that it would be more manageable'