[Driver] Vettel vs Webber: Round 2

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Wims

The shareholders would want the WDC. The amount of publicity and potential for future sponsorship, not to mention advertisement oppurtunities for redbull far, far outweighs any potential monetary gain they would get by winning the constructors championship compared to the WDC

But what does any team do with the drivers' championship? The biggest thing on the car should be the number 1...you'd need a microscope to see it though.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Why should Seb help Mark? Surely they should both be helping themselves, especially as Seb has beaten Mark convincingly the last 2 races.

I think that the only drivers in top teams being beaten "convincingly" by their teammates are Massa, Schumacher and Petrov. No one should be helping anyone at this stage.

[stripedcat]

I think it is Webber won might clinch the title. I suppose it is experience over youth. Vettel is a very fast driver, and probably the best qualifier at the moment. However Mark has been the most consistent, and also he has driven hard for wins(Monaco, Hungary and Silverstone).

I have little doubt that Vettel will be World champion one day, maybe a few times; but I think it is Mark's year.

[chunterer]

Vettel has had the measure, but only just, of Mark in the last 2 rounds. I'm not a mathematician so if they finished like they did yesterday for the the remaining 3 races would that be enough for Seb to overhaul Webbo?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Vettel has had the measure, but only just, of Mark in the last 2 rounds. I'm not a mathematician so if they finished like they did yesterday for the the remaining 3 races would that be enough for Seb to overhaul Webbo?

Seb has had the measure of Mark the remaining last 3 races, plus was ahead at Spa before the accident (admittedly his own fault) and would have won the race before, Hungary, had it not been for the penalty (which i'm still not convinced wasn't down to him helping Mark out at the teams request). With regards to the remaining 3 races, if the same result were to repeat itself every time, Seb would have 7 more points and 2 more wins.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Vettel has had the measure, but only just, of Mark in the last 2 rounds. I'm not a mathematician so if they finished like they did yesterday for the the remaining 3 races would that be enough for Seb to overhaul Webbo?

Yes.... if Seb was to win the next two races he would lead the WDC going into the last race on a countback of more wins ..... they would actually both be tied on points. In effect it would be the driver with the best result in the final race at Abu Dhabi who would win. Should Seb win the next two races with Mark 2nd and Alonso with two 3rd places they would arrive at Abu Dhabi as follows

Mark: 220(score now) + 36 = 256 points.
Seb: 206 + 50 = 256 points
Fernando 206 + 30 = 236. (ie he would have to win in AbuDhabi, with both Seb and Mark not scoring more than 5 points

[Born Racer]

Vettel is widely seen as the one with the greater potential as a driver, and there's a fair bit to suggest that if he adds consistency to his sometime immense speed, he will go on to be better than Webber. Webber strikes me a bit like Damon Hill- making the most of less talent than the outright best, which is a big achievement that may ultimately be rewarded with a world championship this year.

I find myself wondering- if Webber wins the championship this year, will he keep on beating Vettel quite a bit next year, or will he have peaked regardless of any spring in his step that might be injected by the world championship? If he doesn't win, has he missed his best chance because Vettel will keep improving in 2011 and become a force more often?

I suppose I'm jumping to Round 3 too soon.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by E.B

Yes.... if Seb was to win the next two races he would lead the WDC going into the last race on a countback of more wins ..... they would actually both be tied on points. In effect it would be the driver with the best result in the final race at Abu Dhabi who would win. Should Seb win the next two races with Mark 2nd and Alonso with two 3rd places they would arrive at Abu Dhabi as follows

Mark: 220(score now) + 36 = 256 points.
Seb: 206 + 50 = 256 points
Fernando 206 + 30 = 236. (ie he would have to win in AbuDhabi, with both Seb and Mark not scoring more than 5 points

Way too much second-guessing in my opinion - Vettel will be due another mistake before long.......

[phoenix]

It should be noted that Webber set fastest lap of the race.....

I think the situation with the Red Bulls is clear: whichever driver gets pole is, without drama, going to win the race.

Had Webber jumped Vettel into turn 1/2 then Vettel would have found it difficult/impossible to pass. By being second on the grid, and second into turn one, Webber had no choice from then on but to play the "long game" - and as Vettel suffered no bad luck the result was what it was.

I think the same could be said of at least the first 6 or 7 cars on the grid, as without "incidents" (or bizarre strategies/the weather/safety car lottery) the grid order is pretty much likely to be the finishing order for the rest of the season.

[Bononi]

I have the feeling that the next two rounds are Webber's and the WDC is done.

[rocketracer]

slightly off topic: but does anyone else have a recollection of drivers having really poor weekends in suzuka due to changing helmet designs?

i seem to recall schumacher, alesi and trulli at various stages changing their helmet designs for various levels of chrome and having shocking weekends.

thus, i was certain that vettel was going to have a dose of the same. Though perhaps the racing gods were happy for seb to change his design as long as chrome wasnt part of the mix....

[E.B]

It doesnt seem to be such a major change these days...... most of the drivers seem to change their designs regularly (maybe something to do with new sponsorships) Vettel has already changed his design at least twice this year. Many of the drivers seem to have new designs for their 'home' GP.

Personally I find it awful. Bring back the days when changing ones design was frowned upon. Brundle covers it well by his comparing a drivers crash helmet livery to being his signature.... and we dont change our signatures with bank accounts etc every few months. They tend to be something we keep for life (unless changing ones name through marriage etc)

My opinion

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I have the feeling that the next two rounds are Webber's and the WDC is done.

We can but hope. Perhaps Vettel can come second and he can wiggle two fingers at us instead of one......

[OZ_HCR32]

But the thing with Vettel he has the ability to get the quali lap....and frankly you get the feeling he could win the last 3 GPs of the year....meanwhile Webber is going ot have to go and dig deep and get his head right for quali and that first 800mtrs of the silly GP...hwe went a tad backwards again in Japan when he needed to be nailing it alongside Vettel into turn 1

Interesting times ahead!

[AussieTimmeh]

People keep saying that engines could cost Alonso the WDC, but for Mark it'll be starts (getting away from the line) that is going to cost him the WDC surely.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

But the thing with Vettel he has the ability to get the quali lap....and frankly you get the feeling he could win the last 3 GPs of the year....meanwhile Webber is going ot have to go and dig deep and get his head right for quali and that first 800mtrs of the silly GP...hwe went a tad backwards again in Japan when he needed to be nailing it alongside Vettel into turn 1

Interesting times ahead!

Its pretty odd that Webber never had any problems with starts until he started beating Vettel.
It is just an observation, I always considered him to be very quick off the line until recently! Comments?

[Schummy]

Originally Posted by wnut

Its pretty odd that Webber never had any problems with starts until he started beating Vettel.
It is just an observation, I always considered him to be very quick off the line until recently! Comments?

Comments? Yes. I think Dr. Marko has a remote controlling Mark's engine. It's the rational explanation. A more fantastic approach is to think about Mark marring some starts.

[Wims]

One word - Pressure

[OZ_HCR32]

Well I think there was the case of a few car gremlins but that is only one, perhaps two races. I think his problem is his car is quick so he isnt trying too hard to capitalise on the first lap. He has been swallowed up by traffic in Valencia and Monza where he was out of position and the entire first lap was getting pushed back...wasnt just apit straight thing.

I just hope he can wrap it up before Abu Dhabi...i woudl be gutted to see him get punted or have a car problem in the last GP where he just needs a few points to wrap it up. Hope the McLarens are up to speed in Korea as that will make it interesting and perhaps kull the 3 way battle back to two

[mac]

I think something can be said for the fact that more often than not these days he is starting on the dirty side of the track...

[rich07]

Korea's even ground for both of them because neither has raced there before.

Webber won last year in Brazil so he knows what has to be done to win there unlike Vettel which should give Webber a slight edge at that race.

As for the last race its too close to call.

[OZ_HCR32]

Didnt Vettel get caught out in Q2 last year so never really stood a chance? Likely to be RBR off the front again with the two battling it out

[E.B]

Originally Posted by wnut

Its pretty odd that Webber never had any problems with starts until he started beating Vettel.
It is just an observation, I always considered him to be very quick off the line until recently! Comments?

I recall Mark has had an ongoing starting problem. At Williams he used to generally outqualify Heidfeld and then by the end of lap 1 Webber would often be behind having ballsed the start up. It is certainly nothing new or related to when he started beating Vettel.

At least he seems to have got over his earlier problem of seemingly often qualifying well (I rememeber Jaguar at Malaysia particularly) and then having an accident either on his own or with someone else within a couple of laps.

[Knowlesy]

Mark has not had an ongoing start problem.

Literally every car he has driven over his career has been designed badly for starts.

Verdict: not one bad start has been his fault.

[AussieTimmeh]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Mark has not had an ongoing start problem.

Literally every car he has driven over his career has been designed badly for starts.

Verdict: not one bad start has been his fault.

It's amazing what you can tell from the comfort of your living room these days... imagine what we will be able to tell when Formula 1 catches up with the real world and the telecast goes full HD globally!