CARTS new Sponsor

[Snrub]

Pook was way off the mark. How dare he insult the sophisticated likes of Indycool! Trolls are people too! ...Anyway, way too much was made of one comment. This is why people who speak their minds are so rare.

As for the income/education stuff, I notice the same trends with Rotary powered vehicle owners.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Snrub


As for the income/education stuff, I notice the same trends with Rotary powered vehicle owners.

Come on now Snrub, lets see the demographics for owners of rotary powered vehicles... Unfortunately I've been RX-7-less for over a year now But I'll be driving a Formula Mazda in about 2 weeks, thats got to count for something, right?

[billiaml]

Originally posted by Tailwind
Well, except for maybe the Paul Tracy design he had mid-season...

They'd just have to give them to their Dads.

[Snrub]

Formula Mazda eh!? Let's have some details about what you're doing, plans, etc.

I was serious about the demographics. Everytime I meet rotorheads I'm shocked at how much we have in common.

[Neil C]

Originally posted by jjspierx
Not that CART fans specifically don't smoke Winston or drink Bud, but that CART fans in general are of a higher class than Nascar or IRL fans. I don't mean to offend anyone but its quite true, if you look at the demographics of CART's fans, there is a higher average yearly income, level of education, etc...

You can quote all the stats you want, but this is what will get you in trouble. You didn't, "just state the facts", you drew conclusions about the class of people that have less income and education.

I've met people with class, and plenty with none. Their "class" almost never had anything to do with their income, education or choice of wine-and-cheese over beer-and-bratwurst.

I could use statistics to draw the conclusion that the average human had one female breast and one testicle. Although the statistics are correct and irrefutable, the conclusion is ridiculous.

[jjspierx]

Ok, this is ridciculous, I didn't mean "class" as in, "you sir are a good chap with lots grade "A" class." No, what I meant was "class" as in income level, you know middle-class, upper middle class, etc... These are actual terms used to describe what kind of neighborhood you live in, etc... Some of you really need to lighten up. I in know was used the word class as a description of what kind of person you were inside. So no you are WRONG Neil I did not draw any conclusions about people with less income and education, except for the true fact that people who have less income are in a lower income class of people. Irrefutable!

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Snrub
Formula Mazda eh!? Let's have some details about what you're doing, plans, etc.

I was serious about the demographics. Everytime I meet rotorheads I'm shocked at how much we have in common.

Yeah, I'm going down to Infineon(Sonoma, Sears Point) December 3rd to compete in the Russell Graduate Runoffs, driving there Formula Mazda's. I was a semi-finalist last year, and I plan to be a finalist at least this year. I've done some F2000 racing in the past as well as practice shifter karting(125cc). If all goes well, next year I'll be competing in Russell USAC Champ series, and I'd like to find funding to run the Barber Dodge National Series the year after.

[indycool]

jjspierx, my point is this and you seem to have missed it:

When you're in the shape CART is in, fighting for attendance and ratings, you shouldn't have the mindset Pook had of "hand-picking" who he WANTS to attend the races. You want as many as can fill a place, as many general audience viewers as you can find and don't want to give the impression to ANY potential sponsors that there's no market for them in CART.

If the last hobo out of the boxcar has $25 and wants to spend $20 on a Friday GA ticket and the other $5 on a bottle of wine, then welcome his $20, sell him a ticket and say, "thank you."

And if the guy that runs the custard stand down on the corner wants to spend some money for a sign or a program ad or tickets and pit passes for a little contest, you sell them to him and say, "thank you."

Those are the promoter's duties, not CART's, but it doesn't help ANYONE in CART's atmosphere for the CEO to be dividing his potential audience and sponsors into classes by making outrageous, ridiculous one-liners.

I hope this is a clarification that you can understand.

[billiaml]

jj: good luck @ Infineon (and with the funding for Barber Dodge)! Hopefully, success in the first will help with the second

[Neil C]

Fair enough jj, but just so you know that if you're going to say CART fans are of a higher class than NASCAR or IRL fans, your going to get pushback every time. That's just what happens when you use income and education to define social classes.

I'm glad you didn't mention parentage and breeding though. If you had I would have accused you of being British!

And best of luck in formula Mazda. I hope are successful and keep right on going.

[Electrocuted]

Lets change the thread name to, jump on jjspirx thread.

The "beat our chest" and "image" of college grads and rolling in the dough vs country hicks,, is not really what it seems.

These are made up numbers,, but real numbers would be VERY close.

NASCAR has 10 million attendance.
20% are college educated and make money.
2 million smart money making people attended a NASCAR event.

CART has 2 million attendance.
30% are college educated and make money.
600,000 smart money making people attended a CART event.

Conclusion: NASCAR has more smart rich people attend their events than CART has total combined event attendance.

[Snrub]

You guys took this WAY out of context and jjspirx certainly doesn't deserve to be taking the brunt of this.

As for Electrocuted's discussion-based point, I would say let's look at the costs associated with being a Nascar sponsor compared to a CART sponsor. Pook's somewhat off hand comments were said in an attempt to emphasize that CART has value beyond simply the number of eyeballs. The lack of lower-class (ment in a socio-economic way, not a definition of character!!!!) also contributes to the average income and potential buying power of CART fans.

jjspirx: That's very cool. Let us know how it goes! What's it like driving a Star Mazda?

We're getting somewhat off topic, but maybe if I save up my pennies I can one day buy this Atlantics car powered by a bridgeported 12A....Wonder if a 13G (3 rotor 2.0L)would fit. (racingbeat's saltflat varient put out ~1000hp)
http://www.awrracing.com/pages/sale.html

[jjspierx]

Ahem, I apolgize for my last post, I was pretty snappy, and I should have waited an hour or two before posting. I think everyone agrees with the MEANING of what I said, but the way I said it I think was just understood. All I meant to say, is that demographics show the average CART fan is of higher income and eductation level than the average Nascar fan. I In no way was I trying to imply that CART fans are all smart and sophisticated, and that Nascar fans are low class hicks, or anything like that. I apologize if what I said came off sounding that way, but it was completely unintentional.

Also, Indycool, I did NOT miss your point, and I'm not sure why you or anybody else thinks that. I AGREED with my first post, saying Pook's comments were out of line. I agree that in ANY sanctioning body of whatever,(whether or not your attendance, and budget are down) that you should gladly take money from anybody who is willing to give it, thats just smart business. I wasn't justifying what Pook said, I was merely trying to explain what I think he MEANT by it, not that what he MEANT by it, was correct in any sense.

[jjspierx]

Ok, now in response to my Formula Mazda stuff...

billiaml - Thanks for the good luck wishes. And yes, that is the idea, hopefully I will have a successful year at Russell and that will hopefully give me the exposure I need to land a decent sponsor to fund my ride in Formula Dodge.

Snrub - hmmm...don't really know how to describe what its like driving any Formula Car. Its really unlike anything else you've driven. I've driven some FAST cars with ultra stiff suspension, almost no body roll, lots of HP etc...But they don't come close to driving a Formula Car. The response to steering is on the verge of ridiculous, and the brakes, well they are just flat out ridiculous. I mean, my RX-7 had maybe 180HP, but it weighed 2800lbs. Vs. The Formula Mazda which weights, oh, just over 1000lbs, so everything is very responsive. The pressure plate is ultra stiff so it takes like 100lbs to push in the clutch pedal, very hard to release it slowly because it kicks back at you when you unlock your knee cap. The tranny's don't have syncros, so you HAVE to match revs on downshift(heel-toe)or you gearbox won't let you shift down. Also driving on a REAL slick tire, vs a High performance street tire is like comparing apples to oranges. The grip level on a slick is incredible, but once you go beyond the maximum grip, it will snap out at you and you have to correct very quickly. Its very hard to keep a controlled slide going, vs. a street car, in which it is incredibly easy(as least it was in my RX-7).

NeilC - Thanks also for the good luck wishes.

[Snrub]

I didn't realize how tough the clutch was or that you had to rev match. I can sort of vaugly conceive of the forces that your body would endure and how difficult it would be to do your job in a Formula car given the speed at which everything occurs, but I'm intersted in hearing what you think about these aspects. How would you compare the slicks on one of these formula cars to your basic R compound?

[macdaddy]

I'm so glad that everybody's off jj's case. I understood what he meant... Hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps he would've reworded it, but no harm was meant...

Good luck, jj! Your last post was quite interesting. I'd like to hear more, but this thread of "CART's New Sponsor" is now getting WAY off course! Feel free to start up a new thread, "Driving a Formula Car" or whatever... I know I'll read it!

[jjspierx]

Snrub or anyone else who cares...here is a lap around Infineon(me driving). It is by no means a flying lap. The car was rev limited at like 4700 rpms as I was still learning the car at that point. Normally, the revs are at 6500 rpms, and it makes a BIG difference in speed. You'll hear me hit the rev limiter several times during that lap.

About the R compounds, vs. a slick...An R compound is a good in between of high performance street tire and a racing slick. The grip level is a lot higher than a street tire, but still a lot less than most racing slicks. Also, an R compound tire is still fairly forgiving when it comes to slip angles and how quickly the coefficient of friction is reduced when a slide occurs. But yes, as macdaddy said, we are quite off topic. I just didn't want to start a whole new thread simply about me driving Formula cars. I think most of you know already, but my website is www.JeremySpiering.com , and yes I designed and update the website myself, even though its written in 3rd person.

http://jeremyspiering.com/video/Russell_ARC_1_lap.avi

[Dov]

Originally posted by indycool
When you're in the shape CART is in, fighting for attendance and ratings,

This coming from an IRL fan... :confused:

[Snrub]

Cool stuff. If I recall, didn't Mazda visit Russel during the development of the 3rd Gen RX-7 and decided to start Star Mazda with those cars? I'm quiet surprised that it's rev limited at 6500.

[climb]

In one of the great marketing statements of all time, Pook once said last year, "Our fans don't smoke Winstons, drink Budweiser and drive pickup trucks," thus alienating those that do plus two companies that serve as sponsors in our sport.
…
was that in the same speach as
"Tony george runs a series that requires his drivers to turn left, we run one which requires the drivers to turn left, break and use their brains"





Both are missed chances to shut up.
Good bloke, Chris, but nobody is immune from mistakes

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Snrub
Cool stuff. If I recall, didn't Mazda visit Russel during the development of the 3rd Gen RX-7 and decided to start Star Mazda with those cars? I'm quiet surprised that it's rev limited at 6500.

Yeah, an actual Formula Mazda used for Star Mazda is not rev limite at 6500 and has a bit more HP. At Russell, since the cars are basically leased to whoever pays, the cars are rev limited so the engines are stressed less and therefore they last longer. Also, even though the engines are 13b's, they are running a carb conversion.