T Break thread 2023

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Paul D

Not as much fun though is it?

Touche!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

The powers that be are slowly pricing us off the road with extortionate road tax for older diesel vehicles, they want £325.00 for my old Peugeot 406 HDI that actually shows zero emissions on the MOT test.
What with people telling me that electric cars are free at the moment isn't what I want to hear, we all know it's only going to be a while before they clobber them as well.
I wonder how they will set the road tax on them for the different types as surely they won't all be the same ?

It's the inconsistency that gets me - we have two cars: a 2011 Mini Cooper Diesel and a 2018 Octavia petrol.

The Mini gets free road tax because it's a "low polluting vehicle".
The Ocatvia is £180 road tax as it's a "polluting vehicle".

The Mini isn't ULEZ compliant because it's a "polluting vehicle".
The Octavia is ULEZ compliant because it's a "low polluting vehicle".

Someone make it make sense!

[Mike Harte]

Bert, they just make up the rules as they go along. My son has a 2000 something RHD petrol Mini Cooper S made in exactly the same factory as any other petrol Cooper S, but it was made for him to be delivered in Japan when he was first seconded to his firm's office in Tokyo.

Since then, he had it shipped back here and it has passed every MOT since it came back, meeting the emission tests for that car. Yet, because it was made for the Japanese market - he ordered it through a dealer in Tokyo - no matter if he had it "changed" to exactly the same as a car for the UK market, it would never be ULEZ compliant.

Just as well that he joined a new firm and has been seconded to their Tokyo office, and, when he visited a couple of weeks ago, he told me that it was unlikely that he would want to return to the UK, certainly not until he retired. Just as well, because if he did return, he would probably want to live in his apartment in London where it would prove to be too expensive to bring the Mini back again.

[midgetman]

My lorry, 15mpg, cost me £15 per month to tax.

My Citroen Dispatch van, 45mpg, costs me £25 per month to tax.

Both diesel of course. Go figure.

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[GORDON STREETER]

My old 2004 Pug206 4 door petrol that I use here and in Spain is ULEZ compliant ! I got it for nothing as it was an MOT failure but had no rust. I spent about £400 to get it to be a useable runabout 5 years ago and was offered £1600 for it not long ago ! Simply because reliable small petrol cars that are cheap to run without major problems and can still get spares for peanuts, are getting harder to find.

[Gerard C]

And petrol engine are easier to fix. What can happen with an old 206, once you've changed the complete rear axle? Almost nothing. As you say, if no rust, no worry.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

It's the inconsistency that gets me - we have two cars: a 2011 Mini Cooper Diesel and a 2018 Octavia petrol.

The Mini gets free road tax because it's a "low polluting vehicle".
The Ocatvia is £180 road tax as it's a "polluting vehicle".

The Mini isn't ULEZ compliant because it's a "polluting vehicle".
The Octavia is ULEZ compliant because it's a "low polluting vehicle".

Someone make it make sense!

Two different pollutants.

The diesel one will be in a lower CO2 so overall impacts climate change less - hence the road tax.
The ULEZ pricing is based on local air quality, hence the petrol is lower as particulates and NOx is lower.

It actually makes sense!

Although I agree that the governments find it difficult to legislate/tax to encourage the right mix. Different things for different solutions. Do loads of highway miles - Diesel. In town, EV. In-between / Go motor racing - petrol.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Bert, they just make up the rules as they go along. My son has a 2000 something RHD petrol Mini Cooper S made in exactly the same factory as any other petrol Cooper S, but it was made for him to be delivered in Japan when he was first seconded to his firm's office in Tokyo.

Since then, he had it shipped back here and it has passed every MOT since it came back, meeting the emission tests for that car. Yet, because it was made for the Japanese market - he ordered it through a dealer in Tokyo - no matter if he had it "changed" to exactly the same as a car for the UK market, it would never be ULEZ compliant.

Just as well that he joined a new firm and has been seconded to their Tokyo office, and, when he visited a couple of weeks ago, he told me that it was unlikely that he would want to return to the UK, certainly not until he retired. Just as well, because if he did return, he would probably want to live in his apartment in London where it would prove to be too expensive to bring the Mini back again.

I guess, this is just simplistic admin. No central database of cars originally registered elsewhere and it is a rule more to cover mad examples that fall outside.

Isn’t there a way to get ULEZ by demonstrating your vehicle is compliant or exempt. Maybe it is just the later for classics I’m thinking of? Although I seem to remember it was possible if you’d had various conversions you could demonstrate it was compliant.

I haven’t been following recently, so this all might be a load of rubbish.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by midgetman

My lorry, 15mpg, cost me £15 per month to tax.

My Citroen Dispatch van, 45mpg, costs me £25 per month to tax.

Both diesel of course. Go figure.

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Looked at another way. Payload of the dispatch is probably something like 1,200kg (depending on which one). Payload for even a 7.5t is probably around 5,000kg (depending).

So you need 4 trips to deliver the same amount in the Dispatch compared to the lorry. So not that mad.

Not that it makes sense all over for all examples - how could it. And I am sure that there are some howlers. It is quite complicated when you consider use/payload/size/age/mpg/other emissions.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Looked at another way. Payload of the dispatch is probably something like 1,200kg (depending on which one). Payload for even a 7.5t is probably around 5,000kg (depending).

So you need 4 trips to deliver the same amount in the Dispatch compared to the lorry. So not that mad.

Not that it makes sense all over for all examples - how could it. And I am sure that there are some howlers. It is quite complicated when you consider use/payload/size/age/mpg/other emissions.

I have driven lots of 7.5 T lorries and most of them [ even without a taillift ] have a payload of only around 2500Kg .
But you are right that taxing on petrol is because they emit more CO2 .
The total of vehicle CO2 emissions in the UK is 0.000001% of the atmosphere .
And diesels emit more particulate emissions .[ During the lockdown , with about 80% less vehicles on the road . The total in the air in the UK was not reduced at all because most modern vehicles are very clean running ]

The whole Global Warming fraud is about taking money from the people .
https://www.technocracy.news/un-agen...bal-socialism/
And part of that is to reduce the number of cars on the roads . They want a 75% reduction .So they will keep putting up the prices of everything they can think of for driving until very few people will be able to run any vehicles .

[VIVA GT]

I did read something a while ago (unfortunately I can't find it now) where it explained that the latest style of high compression, direct-injection petrol engines produces something like 7 times the amount of particulates than a modern diesel engine with a similar power output. This causes them to have even more complicated/expensive Petrol Particulate Filters in the exhaust to collect them.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I did read something a while ago (unfortunately I can't find it now) where it explained that the latest style of high compression, direct-injection petrol engines produces something like 7 times the amount of particulates than a modern diesel engine with a similar power output. This causes them to have even more complicated/expensive Petrol Particulate Filters in the exhaust to collect them.

That all makes sense. Petrol is going out of fashion, but diesel still has it's place. I'm surprised how they are still developing petrol, when there's plenty of greener and more efficient alternatives out there

[Peter Mallett]

What exactly are these greener and more efficient alternatives?

[S griffin]

Well I'm surprised we haven't heard more from biofuels for starters

[Peter Mallett]

Not exactly green since it involves processing arable products which could be used to feed people. Synthetic fuels however are much greener but seriously more expensive. Good for classic cars that don't do too many miles per year but I doubt they will ever be productionised to the extent that they become the norm.

Some diesel vehicles use old vegetable oils etc. Trouble is, they smell like a chip van.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Not exactly green since it involves processing arable products which could be used to feed people. Synthetic fuels however are much greener but seriously more expensive. Good for classic cars that don't do too many miles per year but I doubt they will ever be productionised to the extent that they become the norm.

Some diesel vehicles use old vegetable oils etc. Trouble is, they smell like a chip van.

My local garage had a little Citroen van in a year or two ago that had been run on old cooking oil. Unfortunately it completely clogged-up the fuel lines to the point it wouldn't run anymore.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Some diesel vehicles use old vegetable oils etc. Trouble is, they smell like a chip van.

Some companies are collecting old oils from MacDo, here. Trouble is, cars and vans smell like MacDo fries afterwards.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Some companies are collecting old oils from MacDo, here. Trouble is, cars and vans smell like MacDo fries afterwards.

Over here, Maccy D's claim that all their trucks run on recycled oil from their restaurants. I don't know whether they run solely on that oil or whether they just supplement their fuel usage with the stuff from the fryers.

Now, I don't know whether that claim is a sleight of hand or smoke and mirrors, however to the best of my knowledge, the company doesn't actually produce any of their edibles because they outsource that to other companies who deliver that produce, not Maccy D's themselves.

[gary396]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Not exactly green since it involves processing arable products which could be used to feed people. Synthetic fuels however are much greener but seriously more expensive. Good for classic cars that don't do too many miles per year but I doubt they will ever be productionised to the extent that they become the norm.

Some diesel vehicles use old vegetable oils etc. Trouble is, they smell like a chip van.

Harry Metcalfe (Harry's Garage on Youtube) has been exploring the use of synthetic fuels for his 'little' collection and has done a few videos on said fuel. The most recent is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6Ir42fvtU

He's also been following the JCB project on hydrogen for JCB equipment and goods vehicles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxtxZY45RMM

Both worth a watch as are his car videos in general. On another topic his other channel Harry's Farm is quite interesting, especially when he's talking about the 'green push' on farmers - it would appear it is now even more attractive to produce less food thanks to Government policies (i.e the replacement for set-aside post-Brexit).

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

.

And part of that is to reduce the number of cars on the roads . They want a 75% reduction .So they will keep putting up the prices of everything they can think of for driving until very few people will be able to run any vehicles .

Wouldn't that be great?

After all the whole Goodwood Revival thing is that yearning for a mythical immediate post war time when there were fewer cars on the road, no big lorries and Miss Marple went everywhere on her bicycle. What's not to like?

I am part of the problem. Yesterday I was in Dorset, today I'm in Kent and next week I go to Northampton, back to Wiltshire then up to Lincolnshire. My life model is ****ed. Why the hell are we demanding ever more roads for ever more traffic and wasting half our lives in traffic jams? Madness!

I hope the next generation gets a better handle on its work/life balance and doesn't waste time and money on just travelling around for the sake of it. Fewer vehicles should equal fewer problems IMHO.

Also Tel you have a much higher opinion of the "ruling classes" than I do. I reckon they can't think their way out of a paper bag let alone make grand plans for the future of mankind. Or even if they can make grand plans, they can't be any worse than the mess we find ourselves in today.

It's being so cheerful as keeps me going, you know.



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[S griffin]

Unfortunately you can’t stand in the way of progress, it’s hard to go back to how it used to be. I think it’ll be hard to have so few cars on the road again things have changed. But definitely people are starting be more economic, like only using cars when necessary. Walking or using buses when they can. I would do that even with a car.

But I doubt we’d go back to having so few cars on the road

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Wouldn't that be great?

After all the whole Goodwood Revival thing is that yearning for a mythical immediate post war time when there were fewer cars on the road, no big lorries and Miss Marple went everywhere on her bicycle. What's not to like?

I am part of the problem. Yesterday I was in Dorset, today I'm in Kent and next week I go to Northampton, back to Wiltshire then up to Lincolnshire. My life model is ****ed. Why the hell are we demanding ever more roads for ever more traffic and wasting half our lives in traffic jams? Madness!

I hope the next generation gets a better handle on its work/life balance and doesn't waste time and money on just travelling around for the sake of it. Fewer vehicles should equal fewer problems IMHO.

Also Tel you have a much higher opinion of the "ruling classes" than I do. I reckon they can't think their way out of a paper bag let alone make grand plans for the future of mankind. Or even if they can make grand plans, they can't be any worse than the mess we find ourselves in today.

It's being so cheerful as keeps me going, you know.



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My opinion of the ruling classes is that some of them are stupid . But some of them are doing just what they are told to do and paid for .
There was some proof that the head of the Climate Change committee was paid £600,000 to do what was needed to promote the NET ZERO fraud .
Nothing has been done about that because it might throw some light on all of the rest of them .
So the Grand Plans are to take everybodys money and destroy the economy .
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...tory-lesson-2/

But as long as they get paid and still control the media , then we are heading for a disaster for most of the country .

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I hope the next generation gets a better handle on its work/life balance and doesn't waste time and money on just travelling around for the sake of it. Fewer vehicles should equal fewer problems IMHO.

I think that they have already, Max. One of my sons (along with colleagues he works with) now works permanently from home - the others in their own homes; just saying so that there is no misunderstanding - and the firm that he is with is more than happy with the arrangement as work product has increased, due in part because most of them work during the hours that they would have spent commuting.

The other son living in Japan spends more time working from home than in the office. Partly this is because he currently lives about a 5 hour train journey away from his office, but when he does go in, he uses the travel time to work online, which is why he prefers to do that rather than flying, which he could do. Although the time taken either way is about the same, it's easier by train.

[midgetman]

How lucky he is to live in Japan where there's decent public transport. Last time I used a train to London there was little chance of getting a seat let alone doing any work.

Tomorrow I shall hit the M25 on my way home and it will be ****, it always is when the sun shines. And I bet most of the occupants of the packed cars would prefer to be having a beer and whisked back to town in a train rather than queueing with all their fractious kids. If only we'd have invested in the railways, but as long as the bosses get their bonuses and the (foreign) investors get their dividend why worry about actually giving a service?

Like I said, I appreciate I'm part of the problem with my nomadic life, but there are far, far too many cars on the road. Yesterday the 3.5 hour journey here took 4.5 hours because of the A303 and the M25 combined.

Still, at least we've got our sov'rentee and we've ****ed it up ourselves, not letting some Johnny Foreigner **** it up for us. Johnny Foreigner who has invested in road, rail, sewage, schools......

And breathe........I'll go for a beer and relax.

(On the plus side my driver was bang on the pace today and we're excited for tomorrow)


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[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by midgetman

And breathe........I'll go for a beer and relax.

You mean you'l take a ***** breathe, be ****** relaxed and have a ***** good beer thinking about the ***** good day your ***** driver will have driving a ***** karting on a ***** good track? Fiiiiine, Max, ***** fiiiiine…