Safety Car and pit stops

[astra girl]

Should pit lane be closed while the race is under ayellow flag? I think it does otherwise it causes too much confusion, just like Sundays race!

[eduardo1]

There was a discussion about this in the "Bezzy Wins" thread.

This is what I wrote in there.

The problem with closing the pit lane under yellows in the 100km races is that the risk for using an alternate strategy aren't worth it.

This used to be the rule, however what happened is that EVERYBODY came straight into pit lane on the lap the window opened. Because if you hadn't pitted by the time the first Safety Car appeared, you were history. This happened numerous times, so the rule was changed in order to promote a more strategic approach.

Which, if the timekeepers don't stuff up, was what happened at Symmons and could potentially we would have had a new race winner this year in Bezzy.

While ever we have artificial pit stops, you can't close the pits during yellows. NASCAR can because their races are long enough that you need several stops. Same as at Bathurst or Sandown or even some of the 300km races. Anything under 200-220km races and you can run it on a single tank.

[JteL]

Originally posted by eduardo1
While ever we have artificial pit stops, you can't close the pits during yellows. NASCAR can because their races are long enough that you need several stops. Same as at Bathurst or Sandown or even some of the 300km races. Anything under 200-220km races and you can run it on a single tank.

Please - if you are going to give information - get your facts right.

NASCAR close the pits at the start of caution periods on the grounds of SAFETY - the ONLY cars permitted to enter pit lane in the first few laps of a caution period are safety vehicles (they don't then have to worry about pitting cars - which means they can get out to the scene as quickly as possible) and cars with mechanical damage that would cause other problems if they remained on the track.

[Lowndesfan6]

Keep it the way it is, the racing was ruined by pit closure under yellow.

Fix the computer timing glitch, and you fix the whole damn thing.

[Spunky]

It wasn't a timing glitch apparently. The SC was given the incorrect car to pick up 'apparently'.

[Lowndesfan6]

Which came from the glitch in the system.

[mjt57]

Or, get rid of CPSes. That way there won't be a need for drivers to pit, unless it's a necessary stop. It will also focus the racing on the track.

[JteL]

This will never be fixed until Schenken starts putting the safety car out when it is needed and allowed to pick up the first car that comes by NOT having to wait until the leader is approaching it and then, because the leader ducks into the pits, the safety car driver doesn't have the sense to stay right in front of the field.

The SC - when used - should pick up the FIRST car it goes out in front of, get the field under control (after all Mr. Schenken - the name of the vehicle is the S A F E T Y Car - funny how the word SAFETY is enforced in its name by CAMS isn't it?), and use the first (and second if needed lap under SC to CALMLY work out who the leader is in the pack behind it and THEN let cars through.

Amazing how in all the years of the Thunderdome, this problem never came up simply because this is how it worked.

Or is Schenken still refusing to implement concepts and ideas purely because Calder Park and/or Bob Jane implemented them? Sure seems like it, doesn't it?

[Spunky]

Originally posted by Lowndesfan6
Which came from the glitch in the system.

The only glitch with timing was the person reading it who sent out the SC.

[johnh875]

JteL, yes the irony is not lost is it? Surely a "safety car" should be on the track as quickly as possible to control the cars so fireys/medicos/recovery etc can do their jobs.

[JteL]

I have it from a very reliable source, within CAMS!, that the upcoming Wakefield 500 meeting originally discussed changing the safety car rules in order to close pit lane exit during any safety car period once the safety car reached flag point 6 (I believe that is the point - the flag point as they start coming down from the top of the track).

The reasoning was that by doing this (closing pit lane exit, cars could not scream out of the pits and race around at full speed trying to catch up to the back of the 'train' whilst there was work taking place on the track.

What happens?

CAMS themselves didn't want to accept this and neither did, so it was reported, some of the key officials for that meeting - despite this being put forward purely as a safety measure. I understand even people such as Peter Nelson were i nagreement with the concept although one source suggests he labelled it not only 'long overdue' but 'brave' given the stance of some other key CAMS officials.

I would have thought the safety of track workers was paramount - but for ANY CAMS employee to reject this type of safety initiative makes you wonder where their brains are really located - because the ones some of them use certainly do not contain the word 'safety' at all.

[eduardo1]

JTEL, if you're going to slag someone then please READ THEIR POST.

I said NASCAR CAN do this because of the length of their races.

I didn't say that was WHY they did it.

I'm well aware of NASCAR's reasoning.

[JteL]

This is what you stated:

NASCAR can because their races are long enough that you need several stops.

The closing of pit lane has absolutely nothing to do with the length of the races in NASCAR - it is purely a safety factor - you implied it is because of distance.

[PVDA]

I say keep it how it is.

The problem at Symmons (from what I gather as I don't yet have ALL the facts in front of me) is that the timing problems caused some confusion as to who was leading.

NASCAR close pit entry to prevent cars running at 200km/h from diving into the pits at the last minute and causing accidents in pit lane and it works quite well in Superspeedway but our racing is different (then again it seems to be getting more and more the same).

The hardest thing to do is time the deployment of the SC so it pops out in front of the leader (or the cars that followed it if the leaders pit) but they have the option of waving cars through once they work things out.

The SC is a necessary evil and we shouldn't take any knee jeck reactions because of the occasional problem.

[JteL]

Paul - as I said in another thread - the safety car should go out and catch the first car that comes past, get the entire field under control behind it and then allow cars through until the leader is directly behind it.

This would prevent all the problems we have had over the last few years of the leader suddenly entering pit lane and the wrong car being picked up.

Grab the field, get it under control, allow Schenken to take his calm-me-down pills, ensure you know who the leader is - then let the cars through.

But - if you want to be totally honest about the use of the SAFETY Car, NO cars should be allowed to pass it regardless of who it picked up.

[Tourer]

Please - if you are going to give information - get your facts right.

Whilst you may be right about the normal practice with the safety car at supercar races Jtel, in this case you are 100% wrong.

The problem came aobut BECAUSE the safety car was scrambled infront of the first car to come along (murphy) - the group of leaders were up by the haripin at that stage and were able to pit and get out again before the safety car got back as far as pit exit with the train formed behind it.

The field were then waved through in a nice orderly manner but most in pit lane disagreed and the officials started to doubt themselves.

[racer69]

Originally posted by JteL
But - if you want to be totally honest about the use of the SAFETY Car, NO cars should be allowed to pass it regardless of who it picked up.

Exactly. This would stop people getting free laps back.

[JteL]

Tourer - I haven't made any specific reference to Tasmania and the V8's - I have made refernce to the way in which Schenken and the V8's usually work with the SC.

However - that said if cars were coming into the pits whilst they were behind the safety car, then Race Control was NOT doing its job in watching for this to happen. Timing should have provided Race Control with a print out of the positions as they stood when the SC entered the track - this way, regardless of what happens out on the track, RC have something to go back to (a hard copy and not a volatile computer monitor or screen).

However - regardless of this - and, as I said, I have made no specific references to Symmons Plains (for the simple fact I haven't, as yet, even watched it) - the SC, when deployed SHOULD pick up the first car it can, the field should then be settled down (and if this takes 1, 2 or 5 laps - so be it) and ONLY then should cars be waved through. To take this to another safety level - IMHO no cars should be waved through until the major safety work ON THE TRACK is completed.

[GTRMagic]

Well Mr Gore reckons Mr Schenken should be sacked in Gory's Corner... but he reckons his race drivers should be sacked every meeting too...

You reckon we could sack the whole Race Control team one by one by the end of 2005?

[aj_308]

anyone see a similarity between Graig Gore and that Donald Trump guy? i think both of them seem to have a thing with saying "your fired"

[amiers]

i think the safety car rules work ok in the sprint races but at the long distance races they should shut the pit lane and pick up the first car that comes past. in particular bathurst, too many times over the last 10 years the pace car has directly influenced the result. you should not be able to lose laps and make double figure pit stops and still win.

[eduardo1]

Originally posted by JteL
This is what you stated:



The closing of pit lane has absolutely nothing to do with the length of the races in NASCAR - it is purely a safety factor - you implied it is because of distance.

JteL, do you practise being so obtuse, or is it just a natural gift?

In my original post I was referring to how the Safety Car in the V8s affected the racing and pit strategies, and how that differed from strategies used in NASCAR, which is because of the length of the races.

If NASCAR ran races to the same length as V8s, they too would be straight in to the pits as soon as the window opened because they would suffer the same fate if they hadn't pitted before the first Safety Car.

But because they run longer races, they need more pit stops, hence they can, and need to, be more flexible about when they complete stops.

Hence, closing the pit lane during NASCAR races doesn't have the same affect on strategy as it used to do in V8s.

THAT is what my original post was talking about. I never said, nor implied, anything about WHY the pit lane was closed in NASCAR. I was responding to astra girl's original post of how it would affect the racing.

Like I said previously, if you can't be bothered reading a post properly, don't respond to it, especially not to tell someone to 'get it right'.

[joncon]

Call a spade a spade. It was always called a pace car .Changing the name does not help.It is and always will be American. Its introduction in Australian motor sport has ruined Australian motor racing. Just look at how many times the pace car has been on the circut in the last twelve months of F1.
Gone are the days when you could see cars overtaking the tow truck at Bathurst.Australian racing ,like the USA is not won by the best driver ,but by the one who uses the pace car to his full advantage [as in indy racing]. Time It was sent packing back to where it came from,back across the pacific.

[V8 Supercars]

Originally posted by aj_308
anyone see a similarity between Graig Gore and that Donald Trump guy? i think both of them seem to have a thing with saying "your fired"

Yep but Craig Gore doesn't have that silly comb over that Trump has.