[LM24] Toyota plans Le Mans return with hybrid!

[Speed-King]

German magazine auto motor und sport writes that Toyota conducted tests with a hybrid-version of the Dome S102:

Toyota is threatening to withdraw

Yamashina said threateningly added: "If in Formula 1 motor of the unit, then we will certainly grow from." Against the backdrop of the introduction of new technology rules at Le Mans and the Formula 1ergit therefore the following scenario: Today's F1 engine regulations is expected to renew after 2012, the existing engines would be operational by 2011. At the same time at Le Mans 2011 new chassis and engine rules in force.

The F1 track could therefore expire in 2011, while alongside the Le Mans debut done - The only problem: Because already from 2010 hybrid technology at Le Mans should be allowed, would opponents of Toyota Honda may already 2010, a shot at the overall victory - a Graus for Toyota.

Therefore took place in July this year with a test rides on hybrid technology upgraded Dome S102 with Ahira Iida at the wheel on the racetrack in Tokachi instead. The hybrid technology came out of that Supra GT, with Toyota the 24-hour race at Tokachi 2007 won. Toyota equips So for the Le Mans-entry if required preferable.

Full article (in German) here:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/s...6475_13987.hbs

[FIRE]

But is the hybrid technology of the SuperGT "Tokachi" car (electric engine in each wheel) allowed in LMP1?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by FIRE

But is the hybrid technology of the SuperGT "Tokachi" car (electric engine in each wheel) allowed in LMP1?

Dont think so. did not the ACO and FIA wanted ONE type of Hybrid? not each company has it's own type of hybrid.

[Aslak Vind]

Well, at last they admit their interests in the Dome S102!

[isynge]

I think this is one of the rationales behind the ACO saying hybrids can run by invitation and not score. This way they can have the flexibility to allow a lot of different options to run while they figure out what the implications are.

Essentially we have to see hybrid power and probably a whole raft of other technologies that will start to appear over the next few years as fundamentally game changing in terms of motor racing. As they emerge regulators can either bury their heads in the sand and tell people to go away if they want to run anything other than a terribly familiar internal combustion engine, or they can figure out how to incorporate them and start to understand what issues get thrown up - which is what I think the ACO is, very sensibly, doing.

Equally does anyone seriously think that if Toyota went to the ACO and said, "listen, we've got a modified Dome with a different sort of hybrid power to the Peugeot and the Zytek, can we run it?" do you seriously think they'll get turfed out? Much more likely the ACO would let them run, possibly with a different sort of weight limit, possibly with a different sort of restrictor on the petrol part of the equation, but in any event the powers that be would recognise the twin benefits of having something innovative on the track, and a company like Toyota being involved.

[GT6]

I think that if any major manufacturer ask to be aloud to enter any type of vehicle in the race the ACO would have to consider it, if full grids and media interest are the desired result then even human powered vehicles(peddle power) might make an appearance.

[old man]

Interesting development, a hybrid at Le Mans

We all had fun with a thread "Sportscars and Global Warming last year and generally rejected the idea that the organisers should take any notice of the threat. Since then oil prices have concentrated minds rather more than global warming did and here we are discussing racing hybrids and in the ALMS awarding trophies for Green racing

Where will it all end I ask myself

[yamato]

Originally Posted by old man

Where will it all end I ask myself

I guess it ends when all of the oil dries up, and we are watching solar powered cars racing at a maximum speed of 30mph

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by isynge

I think this is one of the rationales behind the ACO saying hybrids can run by invitation and not score. This way they can have the flexibility to allow a lot of different options to run while they figure out what the implications are.

Yes that was it.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Well, at last they admit their interests in the Dome S102!

Yes, they finally did.



L.P.

[Aslak Vind]

All respect to Dome, but the S102 was a rocketship in its debut.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

All respect to Dome, but the S102 was a rocketship in its debut.

Very true, but, when did Toyota become interested? link



L.P.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

All respect to Dome, but the S102 was a rocketship in its debut.

yeah it was the real surprise of this year Le Mans, c completly unknown car showing great potential for its 1st race, next year they will be stronger !

[FIRE]

I hope LMP1 will have liberal KERS regulations instead of strict rules (like in F1).

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I hope LMP1 will have liberal KERS regulations instead of strict rules (like in F1).

If they can come up with a reliable way to measure the output of the different systems to keep them inline with each other, maybe a TPS (throttle position switch)/ RPM / wheel speed sensor, set-up to measure input vs output across the board?


L.P.

[zac510]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

If they can come up with a reliable way to measure the output of the different systems to keep them inline with each other, maybe a TPS (throttle position switch)/ RPM / wheel speed sensor, set-up to measure input vs output across the board?
L.P.

But the power output is only as much as can be put in in one lap. It is finite. Why the concern about the output?

[TRuss]

We've discussed before that the Tokachi Supra also used capacitors instead of batteries. Given the limited amount of energy stored by capacitors it is ulikely that this will be considered an option. Especially from the ACO's standpoint since they have realized that there big advantage in modern motorsport is that their cars are actually proving grounds for the next road going technologies. Unless the manufacturers decide that super capacitors will some how be the way to go in future (Which they may.) I think we will see some realatively traditional hybrid powerplants. At least at the start of things.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I hope LMP1 will have liberal KERS regulations instead of strict rules (like in F1).

Not allowing mechanical flywheel systems is not a good start though.

[Japanese Samurai]

Tokachi Supra HV-R has three electric power motors.

<DENSO SARD SUPRA HV-R>
Engine: 3UZ-FE(S-GT specification) 4,480cc
Max power: 480ps/6.800rpm
Max torque: 52kg.m/5,600rpm
Motor max power
Front: 10kw×2（Inn wheel motor）
Rear: 150kw
Weight: 1,080kg

[The359]

From UpdateF1.com

Oct.27 (GMM) Clear signs are emerging that Toyota could be contemplating its future on the formula one grid.

The Japanese giant, which entered the sport in 2002, was perhaps the most enraged among F1's manufacturer ranks at the proposal of a single engine formula.

Even though that prospect has receded, Toyota Motorsport president John Howett recently admitted the move "would be a reason" for the Cologne based team to quit F1.

Now, in the pages of the German magazine Auto Motor und Sport, it is suggested that Toyota sees returning to Le Mans-style prototype sports car racing as an alternative to F1 beyond 2010.

At this year's Le Mans 24 hour race, for instance, a dozen ununiformed Toyota engineers were present, armed with cameras and reportedly sizing up the current competitors.

Additionally, at the American Le Mans Series race in Detroit in August, Toyota officials met with representatives of the series' organising body ACO.

"We would like to go back to Le Mans," Toyota's F1 team boss Tadashi Yamashina confirms. "The final decision is budgetary.

"Under the present economic conditions, it is unlikely that we could do formula one and Le Mans in a parallel fashion," he explained.

[deggis]

Link for that one:

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/new...-F1-/view.html

[johntt]

Originally Posted by yamato

I guess it ends when all of the oil dries up, and we are watching solar powered cars racing at a maximum speed of 30mph

No, because noone will watch that. Theres always algae fuel (search for it on wikipedia).

The ALMS Green Challenge accounts for both efficiency and speed, so while there is a push for economy it doesn't come at the expense of the racing.

[inpitlane]

Toyota's Australian Motorsport manager Todd Connolly said at the Australian Motorshow in Sydney that a return to Le Mans was something "we'd all like to see."
Todd was speaking in front of the Supra Hybrid that won the Tokashi 24 hour race.
Connolly also ruled out an involvement in Australian V8 Supercar racing at the moment.
The full Interview can be seen on the In Pit Lane Videocast at http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...st?id=82362745

[yamato]

Originally Posted by johntt

No, because noone will watch that. Theres always algae fuel (search for it on wikipedia).

The ALMS Green Challenge accounts for both efficiency and speed, so while there is a push for economy it doesn't come at the expense of the racing.

uhhhhh,..... yeah,...... I was being quite "tounge-in-cheek"

And yes, Algae produced bio-diesel is amoung some of the most effecient ways to produce fuel. The technology has been around for some time,...... what will be the impetus behind developing that technology on a large scale??????

I hope that it is motorsports.

[Mal]

To me (not being a techy) the best way forward is to measure the energy out into the car by the standard unit of energy. Therefore the one that uses its energy most efficiently is likely to be the fastes and or the winner. If it produces more energy by effectively recycling the energy put in by the fuel by getting it back under braking - then that should be a bonus.

As much freedom as possible should then be allowed to promote and encourage new and efficient technologies.

To encourage the use of renewable or 'green fuels' more energy should be allowed if produced by those fuels than if by fossil fuels.