Ferrari dismiss Stepney/McLaren suspend Coughlan - Page 4

JeremySmith · 4 Jul 2007, 17:11 (Ref:1954388)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_b

It transpires that a actual Police search of Coughlans home may NOT have taken place.

Have a read of this by Jo Saward.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19356.html

What do you make of all this andy_b? seeing as you worked for McLaren your opinion would mean more than most..

andy_b · 4 Jul 2007, 17:16 (Ref:1954392)

see earlier in the thread.

(I'm hoping that Coughlan has nothing to hide (if it is indeed him -as Ferrari or McLaren havent named him) and thats why he allowed P.I. in. Maybe he is the one who alerted Ferrari? Who knows. Intersting take by Mr Saward who is well respected. At the end of the dayNO-ONE knows at the moment other than the people directly involved.)

chillibowl · 4 Jul 2007, 17:26 (Ref:1954396)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_b

Have a read of this by Jo Saward.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19356.html

from the article: "If the police are not involved then it is up to the parties involved to decide on the best course of action. There may end up being an amicable settlement between the teams rather than the whole thing being dragged through the courts."

very interesting (and nice to see a journalist actually dig up facts), and i hope this is a matter that can be dealt with between the two teams. the last thing F1 needs, in what has been one of the most exciting seasons ever, is another scandal being overblown and destroying whats left of its credibility.

on a side note, is it naive to think that all F1 teams dont already engage in industrial espionage? if so whats the big deal, if anything the onus should be on a team to protect its own data.

JeremySmith · 4 Jul 2007, 17:42 (Ref:1954410)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

I wonder why Stepney didn't return from vacation to deal with this. If I was in his position I'd be on the next plane back to Malpensa.

Excellent point...

Red · 4 Jul 2007, 18:14 (Ref:1954428)

Well, apparently FIA does get involved in this. Accordint to Pitpass they have initiated an investigation already.

Two questions I'd like to raise:

1) Why would a solitary engineer steal/espionage? Personal glory?

2) Why two different threads had to be merged into one, thus making the reading extremely boring/confusing?

davyboy · 4 Jul 2007, 18:21 (Ref:1954431)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

2) Why two different threads had to be merged into one, thus making the reading extremely boring/confusing?

My suggestion I'm afraid... both threads are discussing the same topic and it saves us hopping between the two. As this saga's likely to go on for years... I'm sure this thread's got a ways to go yet.

Red · 4 Jul 2007, 18:29 (Ref:1954440)

I would agree. However, when you merge two threads the posts are ordered by the posting time, I'm afraid. Someone who reads the stuf from post one is lost when two different argumensts are happening albeit debating same subject.

**Adam43** · 4 Jul 2007, 18:35 (Ref:1954447)

Hopefully the thread won't need splitting into Motorsport and forum topics!*

Thanks for the input Red.

*I can see the irony of this post.

Barberouge · 4 Jul 2007, 19:24 (Ref:1954486)

How about this for a conspiracy theory....

Two people in different teams are offered jobs at another team that is just setting up, if only they can get out of their existing contracts.....

ss_collins · 4 Jul 2007, 19:56 (Ref:1954515)

Heres my thoery on it... based on the known facts which are thus:

Two ex Ferrari employees were given a custodial sentence for taking Ferrari aero data to Toyota

Stepney has been sacked by Ferrari for alleged sabotage in the lead up to the Monaco Grand Prix.

McLaren have announced that one of thier senior tech guys (likely to be Mike Coughlan) has been recieving Ferrari Technical data.

To date there has been no indication that these three incidents are connected. I'm not convinced that Stepney has anything to do with McLaren (though what other explanation is there - or is there more to come?) but I think the key part of this is the two guys who have already been done, I reckon they are now letting rip at the rest of the guys within Ferrari who are up to no good.

I'm sure theres more to this than two ex TWR guys exchanging info. I reckon and its only a very ill informed guess most likely that some blue and yellow may get mixed up.

Marbot · 4 Jul 2007, 23:37 (Ref:1954718)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss_collins

I reckon and its only a very ill informed guess most likely that some blue and yellow may get mixed up.

Mix blue and yellow! that's green! This thing may be bigger than we think!

What next I wonder:-Ross Braun caught with Ferrari engine internals shock,horror! Martin Whitmarsh fails to explain sudden presence of mysterious 'V' shaped package in his living room,shock,horror!

Taz Q2 · 5 Jul 2007, 00:34 (Ref:1954748)

Really have to feel for Lewis, regardless of the outcome, if he manages to win the Championship as a rookie just how much cred is he going to be given.

No matter what, when you throw crap at a fan

it's going to spray everything in sight, & no matter how much you scrub, it will never allow all of it to wash away, i pray that Lewis & Fernando have a really big Tarpulin to hide under.

cjent · 5 Jul 2007, 02:37 (Ref:1954779)

How can this happen? What has F1 become? Oh, yeah, a big money lottery, not a motor racing contest. Almost forgot!
Just like Toyota/Chevrolet/NASCAR and the mysterious "white powder" in Michael W's car at Daytona.
The WC could be decided in the courts, not on the track? No. But indeed, another dark and ominous cloud has gathered over the motor racing umbrella, and it is beginning to become very porous.

billkirbywofb · 5 Jul 2007, 03:55 (Ref:1954798)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

Really have to feel for Lewis, regardless of the outcome, if he manages to win the Championship as a rookie just how much cred is he going to be given.

No matter what, when you throw crap at a fan

it's going to spray everything in sight, & no matter how much you scrub, it will never allow all of it to wash away, i pray that Lewis & Fernando have a really big Tarpulin to hide under.

****

I really have to agree with you. I have a feeling that much more is going to come out. And this scandel will show that things have been going on for some time. And it is the driver who will get the blame. I'd hate to see that one of the greatest roolie seasons in all of sports is going to be ruined.

Gt_R · 5 Jul 2007, 04:36 (Ref:1954812)

Then blame the individual members, if any, who use underhand means to seek personal gains/agenda.

I think that Lewis will be pretty ok at the end. Even if (and it's a big IF) Mclaren did benefit from having Ferrari data (difficult to prove), still Lewis had achieved much against his teammate in a similar car. Hence, the quality that Lewis had shown would hardly have wavered.

And i think it is important that both Mclaren and Ferrari have so far been sensible about this. So far at least, Ferrari had taken action against Mike as an individual, and not against Mclaren. I think so far, Ferrari recognise, and also probably only have evidence, that Mike is involved, and Mclaren could only be open and cooperate to distant themselves from that said employee Mike.

If i were to predict anything, Mike will not be at Mclaren any longer, and FIA will clear Mclaren (simply as they could not pin anything on Toyota), and Ferrari will see the culprits appropriately punished.

Still, its not good to hear one side.. let's wait til Nigel is back

climb · 5 Jul 2007, 08:00 (Ref:1954910)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

1) Why would a solitary engineer steal/espionage? Personal glory?

That's a key point FIA cannot ignore.

According to today's Corriere della Sera (main italian paper) (sorry it's in italian)

http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/S...ionaggio.shtml

in Mike's house a 700-page dossier has been found, and it's hard to believe that this can be the result of a few days action. There is still no prove, obviously, but the suspicion is legitimate that this espionage may have begun long before.

Moreover the Corriere reports ( i'd like to know if it's the same beyond the Channel) that this dossier is not just a folder of drawings and technical data, but it also contains minutes of meetings regarding Ferrari's strategies and decisions, thus much more than what happened, for instance with Toyota.

And I agree with Corriere on one more thing: the fact that Macs are very different cars from Ferrari is of no relevance to relieve Mclaren's position: having confidential data from their main competitor is in any case an important and unfair advantage itself.

**Peter Mallett** · 5 Jul 2007, 08:23 (Ref:1954926)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barberouge

How about this for a conspiracy theory....

Two people in different teams are offered jobs at another team that is just setting up, if only they can get out of their existing contracts.....

Funnily enough I was thinking Arrows A1 and Shadow DN11 (?).

JohnSSC · 5 Jul 2007, 10:11 (Ref:1955000)

If there is anything to the allegations (and I do believe in innocent until proven guilty) and technical data was passed, what is the advantage?

To my mind, you are not going to see an innovation traceable to Team X on the cars of Team Y. I think the value of the data is that it gives one more data upon which to make decisions. Further, knowing that Team X came up on a dead end while pursuing a particular tangent may save Team Y from spending time/$$/resources pursuing independently the same dead-end.

And I thought the season was already interesting...

Inigo Montoya · 5 Jul 2007, 10:40 (Ref:1955029)

The advantage is huge John. Reading the story that climb posted, this dossier included not only the details of the F2007, but also all the technical roads that Ferrari went down preparing that car, plus the strategies and decisions for the season. All the ideas that were worth writing down.

Its really sad and pathetic if its true.

davyboy · 5 Jul 2007, 13:06 (Ref:1955157)

Looks like Ferrari obtained the material through a court order issued by the High Court in London rather than by a search of Coughlan's home. Interestingly somebody 'outside F1' tipped off Ferrari. Loose talk in the pub, or family/friend ? How bizarre.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60502

Inigo Montoya · 5 Jul 2007, 14:04 (Ref:1955211)

It was Brawn

davyboy · 5 Jul 2007, 14:19 (Ref:1955223)

Technically, he's outside F1 isn't he

TWRv12 · 5 Jul 2007, 15:42 (Ref:1955284)

Il grande dossier moves the whole shebang into a completely different mega-million orbit. McLaren-Mercedes will be hammered in the courts if any of this mud sticks.

Wonder what chapter in SunTzu's Art of War Ron is consulting to sort this crisis out

Gt_R · 5 Jul 2007, 16:10 (Ref:1955323)

If this latest infomation is true, then it's sad and make this whole season almost worthless.

The strategies, the technical details and all the information that Mclaren could benefit from is really mega, and what Ferrari does, Mclaren would already know.

I applaud Mclaren for letting FIA check their cars, but really, what can FIA do? they wouldnt find a part with Ferrari logos on it, or that ideas gained from Ferrari implemented in their own car cannot be just traced.

I really hope it's just the work of just Mike, and not involve the whole Mclaren. But considering that Mike is chief designer, it's hard to believe that the Mclaren car is completely free from benefitting the information that Mike attain unlawfully, even if it's without the knowledge/approval of Ron and the drivers.

Paulc · 5 Jul 2007, 16:24 (Ref:1955340)

Is it possible that we could see Stepney & Coughlan join forces somewhere else, with what those guys know is it possible that another team could seriously contend this season. interesting stuff.

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