Will Ambrose get penalised?

[Crash Test]

Well will he? For turning Forbes around?

I for one think it would be shyte, to turn around now after the event and say, "errrm, you naughty boy, here's a 30sec penalty."

What additional information can they get after the race? Ask the drivers? What do you think they will say?

They've got the TV replays, they've got the officals, and the sector marshalls on the spot. They have everything that they need to make a decision, yet now they are scared, and decide that they won't make a decision until the TV cameras are turned off, and Crompton can't give them a spray.

What do you think? Should they have acted straight away, or should they take it away and have a cup of coffee over it?

[jetsetter]

I believe for the sake of consistency Ambrose should get some sort of penalty as he turned Rodney around (not that he needs much help) & after what was dished out to Murphy a couple of weeks ago Colin Bond must act for the sake of whatever is left of his credibility.

[twig]

I think if Bond were to penalise Ambrose now, given the after race circumstances, it would only do worse to his creditability.

I didn't see the incident, but if he was lapping him, just forget about it.

[Morris 1100]

Here we go again!
Bond does NOT give the penalty!

The stewards give the penalty.

[Monaro]

Originally posted by twig
I think if Bond were to penalise Ambrose now, given the after race circumstances, it would only do worse to his creditability.

I didn't see the incident, but if he was lapping him, just forget about it.

Mr Spin was race leader at the time.But had not stopped for tyres.

[The Hrt Kid]

its twice in two rounds now Ambrose has gone and punted someone off for position and then gone on to win. NOT GOOD!

[GTRMagic]

It wasnt a race for position was it? A lapped car in the way?? Surely the penalty isnt the same

[racer69]

He still turned him around, and should have got a penalty, for the sake of consistency if nothing else.

[rdmdog]

I believe that it doesnt matter if someone gas pitted or not, Rodney was the race leader. HOWEVER, was he disadvantaged by being turned around? I think Not, cause at least this time he had someone else to blame

He was destined to spin at some stage (pity he didnt take Big Nose out entirely when he did) cause he always does.

Funny dont you think that Rodney, Morris, Dumbrell and Ellery all had serious trouble today:confused:

Wonder why???????????

[jhayden]

And if there is to be consistency, shouldn't Morris get a penalty for pushing the Valvoline car off??

John
Playing devils advocate

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by Morris 1100
Here we go again!
Bond does NOT give the penalty!

The stewards give the penalty.

Here we go again - the practicality of it is that in V8 Soupcar racing the Race Director gives the penalty on the advice of the Driving Standards Officer.

Don't you find it just a little two faced that the Stewards, who are there to adjudicate on charges arising from an event place themselves in Race Control giving advice, left right and centre, as to who should be penalised, knowing full well that these charges can then be presented to them to adjudicate on?

Now I am not saying of the stewards are bent (well the current ones) but it doesn't take much to think about the repercusions of this scenario, now does it?

[Crash Test]

Look at it this way-
The incident was no better or worse than when Ingall punted off Murphy at Adelaide, or Murphy on Lowndes at Winton, which both resulted in a penalty. Nor was it any better or worse than Skaife on Murphy at Phillip Island, or Bright on Ambrose at Phillip Island. Where do they stand? Do they penalise all or nothing?

Interesting that they only showed a couple replays, and not show it over and over again, allowing anyone to have a go at the officials. Has someone had a word in Ch10's ear? Also interesting that they allowed the officials to do their work, and not stick a microphone in their face.

Then again, how long does it take to make a decision? Surely the sector marshall could radio in and give advice, and how long would it take them to watch 10sec of video tape from the different angles? Interesting that Ch10 didn't bother to show the incar view from Ambrose... wouldn't want to bait the commentators I spose...

I still think they should make a decision on the spot.

So what happens at Bathurst? Driver A spins B around in the first hour- too hard to make a decision, let's pop a penalty on him after the race. Meanwhile, if they were given a black flag in the first hour, they could come back and win the race...

[Crash Test]

Another thing, looking at precedents set in recent times, remember back to situations like Skaife on Johnson a couple years back at Calder? A small tap, and a subsequent change of position for the lead- black flag. A small tap, car spears off, new leader.

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by Crash Test
Also interesting that they allowed the officials to do their work, and not stick a microphone in their face.

Then again, how long does it take to make a decision? Surely the sector marshall could radio in and give advice, and how long would it take them to watch 10sec of video tape from the different angles? Interesting that Ch10 didn't bother to show the incar view from Ambrose... wouldn't want to bait the commentators I spose...

I still think they should make a decision on the spot.

ALso interesting, but I haven't seen anyone pick up on it yet, was that the 'interview' (for want of a better word) with Bond at Winton was the first time they have done this. Whilst we have seen images of the patent leather hush-puppy brigade during the event before, I don;t believe we have seen Ch 10 or anyone interview them DURING a race.

How long to make a decision? Certainly not 30 seconds (pls bear in mind that I haven't watched Barbagallo today - I arrived home to find I had set the video to record it tomorrow!!! - SHUT UP - no comments from the peanut gallery please!)

And this is why I personally believe drive throughs and the like that are instigated DURING a race are not only absolutely crazy, they are a complete and utter denial of natural justice.

An instant penalty assumes that the people making the judgements are perfect - and lets face it - they are far from perfect. A race director who has, what? a season (if that) at the back of F1, has never raced any of the current crop of cars. Bond - yes very talented, but again, has NOT driven or raced in anger any of the current cars.

These people have ONE major flaw that they refuse to accept - they are HUMAN BEINGS and, as such, they can, and do, make mistakes.

It is about time they threw their self imposed halo's away and agreed that they can and do make mistakes - and are willing to say so instead of hiding behind their 'We are the Gods of V8 Soupcars - we will say and do what we like and you shall not dare to contradict us'...

<steps down off soapbox and exits, stage left...>

[Crash Test]

Not from the penut gallery, but what colour is your hair?

How long should it take for a decision to be made? 5mins? There were probably 3 or 4 angles to watch, but the Ch10 folks are pretty snappy, so it shouldn't take too long to make a decision...

I don't know about anyone else, but the failure to make a decision really ruined the race for me. It wasn't much chop watching Ambrose circulate in the knowledge that he will probably get stripped at the end of the race...

[Crash Test]

And another thing, Bond has raced in 'V8 Supercar', but who else would you put in the position, who would have recent experience and no bias?

[Monaro]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
It wasnt a race for position was it? A lapped car in the way?? Surely the penalty isnt the same

Yes it was for race lead at the time. When Forbes was punted he was leader but had to pit.So the penalty ism the same

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by RaceTime
Bond - yes very talented, but again, has NOT driven or raced in anger any of the current cars.

So at Bathurst in 1994 Bond was driving the Winfield racing Billy Cart was he.........

[RaceTime]

I said current cars - they are very different from the cars of 9 years ago - even 5 years ago.

And Crash - ANY incident that has ANY element of doubt should NOT be acted on during the race. So yes - if it means deciding AFTER the event, do so - but GET the decision right and not leave themselves open to any cries of bias or stupidity.

But, I guess we are talking about CAMS - the Council Against Motorracing Spectators...

[Crash Test]

So taking that Bathurst example. To me it would seem like a much greater injustice if someone who could have been given a stop-go in the first hour and fight their way back through, is docked a win after the end of the race because it was too hard to make a decision.

Also, any suggestions for a Bond replacement?

[craig1]

The Winton incident with Brazillian moving accident was a little different in that Ambrose was vertually along side.

This incident with the professional accident driving the 00 car was different, he was on old tyres sliding around ( as evidenced by him spinning into Scaife shortly after) and I don't think he was leading because after it all happened they were calling Max as still in front and also not having made a pit stop.

In the end wash up, to be penilised by having an incident with someone who would have been lucky to be in the top twenty when every thing equalled out, would be just a little unfortunate.

It's bad enough when you see a good race ruined by lapped traffic and nothing can be done, letalone what may happen because of this situation. Just ask HRT & Skaife about Rods driving powers.

[racer69]

Originally posted by craig1
In the end wash up, to be penilised by having an incident with someone who would have been lucky to be in the top twenty when every thing equalled out, would be just a little unfortunate.

It's bad enough when you see a good race ruined by lapped traffic and nothing can be done, letalone what may happen because of this situation. Just ask HRT & Skaife about Rods driving powers.

So you should only be penalised if you turn a front runner around?

[revhead_enigma]

Well I think if a penalty is to be handed out to any of the drivers it should be there and then, not after the race has finished. Racing is pretty boring if you don't have the pushing and shoving.

[Mattracer]

Depends on the credientials of the race leader- Forbes spins in almost EVERY race- and this time took Skaife pout ouf comtention and placed Ambrose's fate in the lap of the "Gods".

[Archer]

Forbes was never in race contention - and never is...

Nuf said.