The best training I have ever seen!!

[aprescott]

We, MSA, Clubs and as individuals could learn a lot from these guys.

http://www.acm.mc/gpm/2006/redac_gal...m_feu_2006.php

http://www.acm.mc/gpm/2006/redac_gal...peaux_2006.php

http://www.acm.mc/gpm/2006/redac_gal...ntion_2006.php

[Steve Tarrant]

Well, if the UK was just a small principality, loaded with millionaires, ran just a couple of meetings a year, and excluded everyone over 35 - then fine! You get what they have in Monaco.

But we live in Britain .................................

[Mark Mitchell]

Right Steve!
I for one think the Monaco marshals all have death wishes!

The training I receive/have received from the BMMC/MSA is spot on.

[numbersix]

If ever I crash my teatray I'll feel really confident in Monaco. A car, on the other hand, is somewhat different ...

[Hepatic]

and since when have you seen marshals move a car with trolley jacks? unless the engine lunched itself, at monaco they'd be bits hanging off everywhere. and it doesn't seem to stop marshals taking their lives in their own hands and standing in a live track to wave a yellow....

ooooppps. worms. can. opened......

also, they seem to be wearing completely different gear in the fire training to what they do on track. I know from my own training that in a proban suit you don't have to get very close to feel flippin hot, and if the gear they are wearing is better protection, doesn't that give them a false sense of security?

apart from the nice beach they are doing it on (!) and the brand spanking new equipment they are using, it's not all that different from what training we do is it? In fact i think the stuff done at Oulton at least is better - it's more realistic for a start (real cars, real track). OK so the guys at Monaco can't do it on the real track unless they want to upset some Ferrari or Lambo drivers trying to get to their yaht in the marina for cocktails and nibbles, but i reckon we do a pretty damn good job of it

Nice helmets tho...!!!!

[Sheila M]

I do fire training at Donington every couple of years or so just for the hell of it. I can't remember the last time I extinguished a burning tray of fuel but I CAN remember the last time I extinguished a burning car!

Sorry, but extinguishing a tray of fuel is most defintely NOT the right way to lean how to extinguish a burning car, as I'm sure Jim W will confirm!

[b1ackcr0w]

"John, can you pass that trolley jack that's inbetween the rabbit hole and the pool of mud over the three layer armco & tyre wall?"

Hmm, what they're doing is probably appropriate for their circumstances, but the situation at most UK circuits is so very different.

The contrast does sort of highlight how much British (and Irish etc) Marshals get done, using a minimum of equipment, using teamwork and resourcefulness.

Have you noticed that in all those photos, there are no women, and nobody is smiling or showing any sign of enjoying what they're doing?

[Steve Tarrant]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

Right Steve!
I for one think the Monaco marshals all have death wishes!

That's true - forgot to add that you put a yellow flag in their hand, they become impervious to fear and being hit by racing cars while flagging IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRACK!

As observed many times on TV!

[rescue dude]

Originally Posted by Steve Tarrant

That's true - forgot to add that you put a yellow flag in their hand, they become impervious to fear and being hit by racing cars while flagging IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRACK!

As observed many times on TV!

Very similar to the shields of invincibility worn by some photographers trackside.

[PipSqueak111]

I agree that the large tea-tray isn't the best fire training, but it was good in my novice year, as it gave a clear indication of how effectively a fire can be knocked down by powder - a good confidence builder for a novice. But yes, an actual burning car is better for later fire training, as it demonstrates the way fire lurks around the wheelarches, under the bonnet, etc.

[Clive]

Hmm, beats most of our venues though as a training venue. Wonder if the MSA will fund us to go there next year??

[Dave Brand]

Maybe we could teach them a thing or two as well!

Notice, particularly in the 'intervention' training, how they are all wearing helmets but most of them have trainers on their feet & are not wearing gloves?

A good training set-up, yes, but how good is the actual training?

As for fire training, maybe a tray of petrol, while not bearing much similarity to the situations we find ourselves in, is not such a bad training method. In many ways it represents a worst case - if you can put out a tray of burning petrol safely, without blowbacks, etc., nothing you'll face in real life will cause problems. While practicing on a car may look more realistic, a cold car with the battery removed, glass & soft trim taken out & the petrol tank drained is still a long way from real life - most of the sources of ignition & much of the flammable material are absent.

[CombeMarshal]

On the tray of burning flames thing, it could easily represent the floor of a car flooded with fuel??
Monaco Marshal are a different breed!

[CombeMarshal]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Maybe we could teach them a thing or two as well!

Notice, particularly in the 'intervention' training, how they are all wearing helmets but most of them have trainers on their feet & are not wearing gloves?

A good training set-up, yes, but how good is the actual training?

As for fire training, maybe a tray of petrol, while not bearing much similarity to the situations we find ourselves in, is not such a bad training method. In many ways it represents a worst case - if you can put out a tray of burning petrol safely, without blowbacks, etc., nothing you'll face in real life will cause problems. While practicing on a car may look more realistic, a cold car with the battery removed, glass & soft trim taken out & the petrol tank drained is still a long way from real life - most of the sources of ignition & much of the flammable material are absent.

At Combe they leave all the softy bits in, we even got complaints from the football team across the road, Opps!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by CombeMarshal

On the tray of burning flames thing, it could easily represent the floor of a car flooded with fuel??

Funny you should mention that - the only real fire I've ever had was car which had a burst oil pipe. Oil had collected in the undertray & was burning, so the tray of petrol was a very close simulation!

[The STIG]

I hear a rumour that Monaco Grand Prix Marshals are Mostly British... is this true?

Incidently, all those links just get me to the ACM main website.

[bigted]

can you imagine training on the beach at anglesey? i think youd need 5 layers and a fire just to keep you warm.

[1200Datto27]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Incidently, all those links just get me to the ACM main website.

Same here.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by The STIG

I hear a rumour that Monaco Grand Prix Marshals are Mostly British... is this true?

I don't think so!

[theracegypsy]

Originally Posted by The STIG

I hear a rumour that Monaco Grand Prix Marshals are Mostly British... is this true?

Incidently, all those links just get me to the ACM main website.

Definately not. 99% French, but not the same guys who we all meet at Le Mans.

I marshaled MC once, and never again.

MSA/BMMC/UK clubs training is good. There are always arguements about individual points such as old car vs tray etc, but the basics are well taught, and the extension to basics with experience are covered too.

For other good training schemes abroad try SCCA in the USA, MMS in Canada or CAMs in Australia

www.sfrscca.org

www.motorsportmarshalling.on.ca

www.cams.com.au

[Shelagh]

Four things:

1) Even a tray fire gives you an understanding of how to tackle a fire. Practising with a real car can't cover all circumstances, because a car can burn for various reasons and the fire originate in different places.

2) Just call for my Bill. No matter how big or small the fire, he seems able to put them out just by looking at it. Saves on the powder!!!!! All we need to do is get him that skintight outfit (with the underpants on top) so he can appear as soon as he is needed!!!!

3) Is it still true that they don't allow women to marshal at Monaco. If it is then I will never grace them with my presence.

4) Don't promise four things when you get to my age because you can never remember the fourth.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

All we need to do is get him that skintight outfit (with the underpants on top) so he can appear as soon as he is needed!!!!

Please...........this is a family forum!!!!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

. . .

In many ways it represents a worst case - if you can put out a tray of burning petrol safely, without blowbacks, etc., nothing you'll face in real life will cause problems. While practicing on a car may look more realistic, a cold car with the battery removed, glass & soft trim taken out & the petrol tank drained is still a long way from real life - most of the sources of ignition & much of the flammable material are absent.

And that is why the fire training I help organise at Donington does not remove,: petrol, glass, trim, seats, battery, gas struts or tyres from the cars we use.

IMHO trays are almost a total waste of time. They allow me to demonstrate a few "technical" things such as seeing how foam covers in a layer and how getting too close with a dry powder blows a trail of petrol the other side but that's all we use them for.

I have always aimed for people to go away with a feeling that they have tackled a "real" fire situation in a realistic (even difficult) car.

And don't get me started on gas powred rigs - utterly irrelevant for motorsport fire fighting.

Regards

Jim