[WEC] 2016 WEC Discussion

[rich07]

If that 400 million figure is correct I would say Porsche and Audi are 150m~ each with Toyota on 100m. Toyota have historically been the team with the lowest budget in Lmp1.

[Deleted]

Doubt Toyota is anywhere near 100 even

Bykolles budget figure would be most interesting maybe in the same area when he ran the R10s in LMS?

Nissan's estimated plan ??????? Marketing pr and super bowl must've been the primary deficit areas there...

[bckf]

I also expect Toyota to be stuck in 2013, so running on (high) 8 digits figures (I guess?).

Anyway, I'm not sure if the $400 million total makes sense in the light of this...

Originally Posted by Racer.com

• Audi's annual LMP1-H budget is $242 million.

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...audi-f1-rumors

[deggis]

I know Pruett (not Scott) is trustworthy but I don't believe that figure. It is so much higher than all other quoted figures.

Last trustworthy Toyota figure I have collected is 40M eur from 2012 and source was Leupen. Considering 3rd car still has not happened I doubt the budget it would have suddenly doubled. Are there newer (trustable, not random guestimation forum posts) figures?

[deggis]

Interesting that the comments in the article (S365 one) come out as if ACO had miscommunicated their intention, given the wrong idea or simply changed their mind.

Note worthy from the article:

“The additional race, if we are to go there, we need to have additional budget, which is still to be negotiated with Toyota.”

Wouldn't expect 3rd car at LM then.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by deggis

I know Pruett (not Scott) is trustworthy but I don't believe that figure. It is so much higher than all other quoted figures.

Last trustworthy Toyota figure I have collected is 40M eur from 2012 and source was Leupen. Considering 3rd car still has not happened I doubt the budget it would have suddenly doubled. Are there newer (trustable, not random guestimation forum posts) figures?

Every source I’ve seen suggests that Audi and Porsche both spend more than what Toyota spends. Regarding the 2012 figure, Toyota first raced at Le Mans that year (two cars) but only ran a single car for the races after that. Has Toyota’s spending doubled since 2012? Probably not. Has their budget gone by since 2012? Well they are running two cars all season long, so I would have to say “yes.” So something in the high 8 figures — say $70 million to $80 million a year — would seem about right. Sorry, no exact figures.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Every source I’ve seen suggests that Audi and Porsche both spend more than what Toyota spends.

I wasn't comparing the racer.com figure to Toyota, because clearly Toyota's budget has never even been in the same ballpark as VAG bros, but all other figures for VAG bros I have/remember have still been lower than the racer.com figure.

[chernaudi]

Last figure I heard about Audi that seemed realistic was 75 million Euros--about $85 million USD. But that was from about 2011.

[TF110]

Toyota said a "quarter" the cost of F1. They spent around $300 million a year there. Thatd mean $75 million per year now. The sc365 wording sounds like theyre speaking of mexico. All the teams have additional costs for anadditional race. But Toyota's budget was put together for 8 not 9 rounds. So they have to ask for more to do mexico.

[wolfhound]

Gerard Neveu has described the scheduling of a GP on the same weekend as the LM24 hours as an attack on the WEC despite the gentleman's agreement. He also mentioned that there are 5 clashes between the WEC and F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121327

He also says that Bernie does not do these things by accident.
It will not be a major issue for the 24hours but it will mean there are no current F1 drivers at LM

[Coach Ep]

That's what you get for sleeping with the devil...

[Akrapovic]

Did they not learn from the deaths of DTM/ITC and FIA GT in the 90s?

[deggis]

I thought Neveu wasn't the type of promoter who talks directly and bullishly.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Gerard Neveu has described the scheduling of a GP on the same weekend as the LM24 hours as an attack on the WEC despite the gentleman's agreement. He also mentioned that there are 5 clashes between the WEC and F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121327

He also says that Bernie does not do these things by accident.
It will not be a major issue for the 24hours but it will mean there are no current F1 drivers at LM

Good for them to call this openly what it is, a sabotage attempt by Formula One.

[Coach Ep]

One F1 driver not being able to participate doesn't make it the end of the world, does it? Hulkenburg is pretty much an unknown (with the big crowds in F1) anyway and his impact is limited therefor so what's all the fuss about?

I'd bet if Montoya were to come aboard (possibly in 2017) it would generate much more publicity than Nico ever could. Nothing to do with Nico, just the way things are.

[deggis]

Lots of the motorsport media is going to be stuck in Azerbaijan covering the GP.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

One F1 driver not being able to participate doesn't make it the end of the world, does it? Hulkenburg is pretty much an unknown (with the big crowds in F1) anyway and his impact is limited therefor so what's all the fuss about?

I'd bet if Montoya were to come aboard (possibly in 2017) it would generate much more publicity than Nico ever could. Nothing to do with Nico, just the way things are.

Well there's also the likes of Alonso even though it was obvious a team like Mclaren was never going to allow it, Bernie is a very shrewd person, probably safer from his point of view to do this and prevent anyone else getting ideas.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

Well there's also the likes of Alonso even though it was obvious a team like Mclaren was never going to allow it, Bernie is a very shrewd person, probably safer from his point of view to do this and prevent anyone else getting ideas.

And Button.

Bernie is a loser with a sport that's falling apart.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by deggis

Lots of the motorsport media is going to be stuck in Azerbaijan covering the GP.

Winner winner, chicken dinner. It's not the drivers that Bernie wants to keep a tight leash on, it's the press. They'll be cajoled into bigging up the Baku GP in order to "protect" themselves from the "threat" that Le Mans represents to their "coverage".

However, I don't think it's as clear cut as the gentleman's agreement being violated directly. That exists between the ACO and the FIA, neither of whom are responsible for setting the F1 calendar (FOM are). Rather, the problem lies with the FIA not having enough oversight to prevent Mr Ecclestone from acting like his shoe size rather than his age.

[Deleted]

Finally Neveau says something politically incorrect and proper. Good on him

[TF110]

I doubt the date stays. They can easily move it up a week and it wouldnt affect anyone.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Bernie is a loser with a sport that's falling apart.

Precisely. Bernie attacking other series(more or less remote threats) is not a new thing. I remember similar things from him against CART/Indy when that series had it's heighest popularity in the 90s.

This might look pointless because WEC/LeMans will never be a threat to a short/sprint, drivers-centered racing competition like F1, tv-appeal wise

F1 will never be so mainstream again, as it was in the 90's/early 00s. The constant dropping of tv viewer figures are related to a few factors like:
_more alternative for the public, given the endless amount of channels covering any possible subject one can come up with
_mainstream people simply getting bored of "cars just going around in circles"
_a few treehuggers see cars as villains of the enviroment, and despite them being a small group, their number only grew on the last few decades.
_people have another, very popular, option of what to do with their free time now with the internet and all the social interaction it allows. Eventhough I couldn't care less about twitter, facebook and whatnot, I know lot's and lot's of people who are addicted to these things and can barely get their eyes off the screen of an ipad, tablet(or whatever)

These things are outside the control of the people in charge of F1 and nothing can be done about them. The world simply changes. The alarming thing is that WEC have more of the automotive industry heavy weights and glamour than F1, nowadays.

WEC has the world's top 2 car companies. Not to mention they are the only car manufacturers among Top10 companies with biggest investment in R&D. Michelin and Bridgestone invests double of GoodYear(3rd largest tyre company) and tripple of Continental(4th) in R&D, annually. So WEC has the top car and tyre manufacturers.

F1 had the glorious Michelin/Bridgestone tyre war in the 00s and now are stuck with a subpar company like Pirelli, which bothers to spend lot's of money on track advertizing that goes directly into FOM's pocket. With no giant manufacturer like GM, Ford or the WEC ones, what is left for F1 is Mercedes(Daimler), Ferrari(Fiat-Chrysler) and Honda(doesn't even look like a long future for this one).

I think, maybe, what concerns Bernie is the fact that WEC is currently more attractive for manufacturers than F1. If/When Honda goes, they will be stuck with only 2 and that will be alarming for them(same number as WEC but not the giants present there).

As far as I heard, Red Bull's near future presence is already in danger given the lack of options for PUs(as they have the car with the best aero, Ferrari/Mercedes doesn't want to supply to it's most threatening rival).

[MoMedic9019]

Not to mention all of that.... BUT.....

Honda, Ferrari, BMW are all open to the idea of P1.... and not F1 only.

Just a matter of time before the other shoe drops.

[Deleted]

BMW only comes if they manage to lobby in rules they want, which is not happening

Ferrari only goes P1 if they quit F1, which won't ever happen because of their
A) Exclusive VETO right on every major decision
B) Extra revenue profit for free just for being there
C) Tifosi pressure

Honda has never shown interest other than the GT1 NSX back in the day. HPD doesn't count. So I'm not sure what you are referring to.

I would rather even trust on (proper not Speedsource) Mazda or Jaguar return than above three. Which itself are unrealistic scenarios

Other than that McLaren wants GT1 style rules or no deal, GM doesn't care, Ford has other interests, Peugeot is broke, Mercedes has horrendous LM history that might not want to refind itself, AMR has realized it's too poor and miserable to contest on that level, other Volkswagens are... ehh you know

Subaru maybe but their interest always sounded kinda weird

[Deleted]

Well to add, BMW won't be catered unless Audi and Porsche (& Nissan) scatter to twilight and it's PANIC TIME in ACO land, anyway