[WEC] 2016 WEC Discussion

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Does Road America (?) have consiredably less hotel capacity in the vicinity than say Road Atlanta when it was part of the ILMC, or can we just safely slot this in the excuses locker as usual when it comes to NA choices?

Well, in the case of Road Atlanta the name is actually a bit of a give away, isn't it?

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Well, in the case of Road Atlanta the name is actually a bit of a give away, isn't it?

Road Atlanta is about 50 minutes outside of Atlanta proper while Road America is an hour or so outside of Milwaukee. In both cases, there are other, smaller, cities that would be closer. As for the number of hotel rooms within whatever distance the WEC wants, I have no idea. I would rather doubt that either would compare favorably to Montreal or Mexico City though… I would also contend that Montreal or Mexico City would be more consistent with what the WEC's business model is in that they are active F1 circuits.

Aside: Both Spa and the Nürburgring are both kind of in the middle of nowhere. Would be interested in how many hotel rooms the WEC wants and how many hotel rooms are within that distance in the Ardenne and Eifel.

[Deleted]

On road Braselton is sth like 50miles off from Atlanta

Elkhart Lake 20 miles from Sheboygan. 140 from Chicago

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by Chiana

On road Braselton is sth like 50miles off from Atlanta

Elkhart Lake 20 miles from Sheboygan

…And Sheboygan had an estimated population in 2014 of 48,775.

[Deleted]

About the size of my town, and we recently had AC/DC here literally doubling the population, and it survived relatively well

[MoMedic9019]

The "hotel room" excuse is just that. It's pure BS... There are plenty in the area..and I say that as someone who knows the area extremely well. There are 46 hotels, with at least 75 rooms in a 30-40 minute drive.... Does the WEC need more than 3500 rooms? Push it out to a 60 minute ride, and you are over 20000 without issue. It's the same stupid excuse that prevents Lambeau from hosting a Superbowl.

Just as comparision... NASCAR has no issue with the hotel room numbers when they've discussed Xfinity, and the Sprint Cup dates....so....yeah. I think we can argue that Sprint Cup might have a slightly larger draw than the WEC.

[MoMedic9019]

Oh. And we just hosted the PGA Championship with over 250,000 people in attendance....no problems... so.... yeah.

Take it for what it's worth, but, hotels aren't an issue.

[Artur]

MoMedic9019, do you know what's the fee that COTA pays for hosting a WEC event?

I think there was only a couple of tenths of thousands spectators at the Nürburgring and the regular ticket price was 30 euros(VIPs over 200 and 300). I think's it's pretty safe that the track collected less than a million euros from attendance. Depending on the fee, I reckon WEC might not return...

[Deleted]

But attendance isn't in their primary concerns, that's been made clear...

(haven't actually watched the race itself yet, will do later, so yet to see how it looked, but as I said it doesn't really seem to matter to them...)

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Artur

MoMedic9019, do you know what's the fee that COTA pays for hosting a WEC event?

I think there was only a couple of tenths of thousands spectators at the Nürburgring and the regular ticket price was 30 euros(VIPs over 200 and 300). I think's it's pretty safe that the track collected less than a million euros from attendance. Depending on the fee, I reckon WEC might not return...

From listening Radio LM I got the impression that Nurburgring will almost definitely be part of the WEC next year. Don't forget all 3 current LMP1 teams motorsport bases are in Germany. From that I would be pretty sure of there being a race there if not there will be one in Germany.
I also got the impression elsewhere that a crowd of 30,000 was enough for a circuit to make a profit out of a WEC race.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Chiana

But attendance isn't in their primary concerns, that's been made clear...

What is their concerns, then? I don't listean to stuff like Radio LM, so I don't have a clue about stuff like this...

Is this funded by public money?(I never thought it was) If this is funded by private parts, how can they afford (what I speculate to be) a considerable fee without attendance?! Where would the money come from?!

The race being in Germany surely pleases the Germans marquees(and TMG as well, for the logistics involved), so I guess the fee for Germany hosting an event might be much lower than anywhere else.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Artur

MoMedic9019, do you know what's the fee that COTA pays for hosting a WEC event?

I think there was only a couple of tenths of thousands spectators at the Nürburgring and the regular ticket price was 30 euros(VIPs over 200 and 300). I think's it's pretty safe that the track collected less than a million euros from attendance. Depending on the fee, I reckon WEC might not return...

I don't know the exact amount, but, the WEC has not renewed its contract with them after 2016.

I think RLM said it was about 65,000 specators for the weekend. Assuming that the big draw days were Saturday and Sunday it's about 33k a day. Would put it right about a million euro.

COTA drew 30,000 for three days lat year. 10k a day? That's why we won't see COTA in 2017.

[Deleted]

Interests? That factories are happy... that corporate guests have big VIP lounges and short distances to their 5 star hotels... that logistics and paddock procedures are easy... that there is money somewhere in the mix... that everything has 'Charlie Whiting Approved' seal in it...

Anyway, back to Monza potentially being thrown to March as season opener and teams meeting the Italian ice rain and fog. Might be because some market analyst people have told the ACO "hey we know you have that annoying summer gap that everybody moans about and that you could slot this Monza date to, but instead of fixing that how about we have race in March - look F1 doesn't start the season until April now, maybe you should get ahead and grab people's attention first as it's the same exact target audience!!!1111"

[MoMedic9019]

Interesting take on it Chiana..

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Please expand on this thought, I'm a bit confused what you mean by it.

Not to put words in Chiana's mouth, but I think he's implying that Neveu & Co. only have Grade 1 Tilkedromes in mind, especially those with the ability to host 5-star events parallel to the race for corporate and VIP guests, and therefore are ruling out other tracks even though they can - and have - drawn good attendances previously.

Edit - Ninja'd by Chiana himself.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Not to put words in Chiana's mouth, but I think he's implying that Neveu & Co. only have Grade 1 Tilkedromes in mind (with the ability to host 5-star events parallel to the race for corporate and VIP guests), and therefore are ruling out other tracks even though they can - and have - drawn good attendances previously.

Edit - Ninja'd by Chiana himself.

Yeah... I tend to agree with it, though, I think for the good of the series they will need to expand, or modify the schedule a bit to make it have some level of, eh.... depth.

While I love the WEC, there is little historical substance to it due to some of the venues they attend.

[Deleted]

Waiting for the inevitable "I get that the series doesn't run in your favorite tracks but you just have to accept what you have and enjoy as it is" counter comments and for all of this starting to go roundy roundy again.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Yeah... I tend to agree with it, though, I think for the good of the series they will need to expand, or modify the schedule a bit to make it have some level of, eh.... depth.

While I love the WEC, there is little historical substance to it due to some of the venues they attend.

Yep, and that historical significance isn't going to be built with "6 Hours of X," no matter how snazzy the grandstand and VIP venues are. A world sportscar championships has come and gone before so there isn't much to hark back to as you could for F1, Nascar, etc.

I realize it sounds like a step backwards to some people but if the WEC wants a quick fix for nostalgia then they could do worse than run on one or two "classic" tracks with a history of significant sportscar races. I think we all get the need to run at modern circuits in growth areas (and I'm not saying these races are necessarily bad or poor), but there should still be some consideration for long-time and dedicated fans who also invest a lot of time and effort - if not cash - into the series.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Yep, and that historical significance isn't going to be built with "6 Hours of X," no matter how snazzy the grandstand and VIP venues are. World sportscar championships have come and gone before (all one of them) so there isn't much to hark back to.

I realize it sounds like a step backwards to some people but if the WEC wants a quick fix for nostalgia then they could do worse than run on one or two "classic" tracks with a history of significant sportscar races. I think we all get the need to run at modern circuits in growth areas, but the fans have a part to play as well.

Completely agree.

[Deleted]

In retrospect it's quite miracle Sebring ever even happened in 2012.

Maybe it's because when they they were drawing up the calendar ILMC was still going on for it's last breathes of air, and they had not totally lost perspective yet.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Yep, and that historical significance isn't going to be built with "6 Hours of X," no matter how snazzy the grandstand and VIP venues are. A world sportscar championships has come and gone before so there isn't much to hark back to as you could for F1, Nascar, etc.

I realize it sounds like a step backwards to some people but if the WEC wants a quick fix for nostalgia then they could do worse than run on one or two "classic" tracks with a history of significant sportscar races. I think we all get the need to run at modern circuits in growth areas (and I'm not saying these races are necessarily bad or poor), but there should still be some consideration for long-time and dedicated fans who also invest a lot of time and effort - if not cash - into the series.

And, to put it bluntly, you’re not really the WEC’s target audience. Nor am I or anyone else on this discussion board. It’s really as simple as that.

The WEC is attempting to take sports car racing to a higher level, with each race an event of the highest order, just like each race in Formula 1 is an event of the highest order. And that means, in the FWEC’s estimation, racing at race tracks that the unwashed masses around the world — including businessman with only a marginal interest in motorsport and journalists that rarely cover racing — might of heard of, which are places that currently or recently have held F1 races. The story that the WEC is trying to sell is that WEC is first class just like Formula 1 as it races on the same circuits that F1 races on.

Now you and I may well disagree with the WEC’s business model, but it is what it is.

[MoMedic9019]

The problem is, these uninspired, history-less Tilkedromes have't done ANYTHING positive for F1... if anything, they've actually caused harm, along with the regs and the Bernie.

To me, Yas Marina is the only circuit I've actually come to like out of any of them.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

The problem is, these uninspired, history-less Tilkedromes have't done ANYTHING positive for F1... if anything, they've actually caused harm, along with the regs and the Bernie.

To me, Yas Marina is the only circuit I've actually come to like out of any of them.

I’d agree that many of the Tilkedromes are uninspiring, but the fact of the matter is that the typical German or Japanese that watches some F1 and DTM/Super GT and even goes to a race every now and then is much more likely to have heard of COTA than Road America. Tilkedromes, though perceived by many serious race fans as flawed, are still going to be seen as a premium site by the unwashed masses as compared to someplace they never or only vaguely have heard of.

[Deleted]

That's the issue isn't it though, trying to make the championship appeal to masses even though the format of it immensely screams "this is niche".

Regarding Indy, I guess the only positive (besides not being COTA ) of "6 Hours of Indianapolis" would be that at least from pretty much whatever angle you look at the place, you will immediately recognize it and associate it with US, making it at least stand out from the rest.



But I'm not saying that as if only ovals (/rovals) would connect it to States, any traditional road course there has very distinct features / "feel to it" you will have very hard time finding anywhere else (except Canada).









And Indianapolis, while about as interesting as... umm, yeah, does still have it's own character at least.

Unlike that other generic place that might just well be from Indonesia or Mongolia or Pakistan or wherever...

[wolfhound]

I don't get where all these Tilke circuits being used by the WEC. Of the 8 circuits visited by the WEC The only pure tilke drome is Bahrain (I don't know who designed Shanghai). Tilke finished off COTA after the initial layout was done by others.