Brabham BT30

[allenbrown]

Excellent work Steve!

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Excellent work Steve!

I'll second that, but its a sad ending if true, Andrew

[njw070]

[quote=Andrew Fellowes]I'll second that, but its a sad ending if true, Andrew[/quote

It is true , I am trying to trace where all the salvaged parts went. I will be sending you all the info I get . Nigel.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by njw070

I am trying to trace where all the salvaged parts went. I will be sending you all the info I get . Nigel.

I guess no luck as yet?

BT30-17
From the BT36 thread Beat says no Swiss customs duty was paid on BT30-17, indeed he took it to England after Rouen and I assume that he returned with just one car, BT36-11.
If true then its fairly compelling that #17 could have been in the UK from 1971 onwards, and yet the guy who bought the fuel tanks for the car from Simon in 1988 told Ted he imported it from Switzerland, he would of course have no real reason that I can see to fib.
Not only that but by all accounts the chassis plate BT30-17 on the car at auction in 1996 we are told looked genuine, and yet there is no record of this number in the UK prior to that date.

Was the 1988 owner still the same as the 1996 auction consignee?

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

extract from the 1996 Coys sale catalogue for BT30-17 which I have just found,

The car was sold to F1 privateer, Silvio Moser in 1971 and was later used for hill climbs on the continent before being purchased by the present owner in 1976. He has restored the car (which is lacking its Cosworth FVA) to mint condition and it is offered with spare wheels

The same owner since 1976, really? Hill climbed on the continent?
Andrew

[Ted Walker]

Andrew. Thats what i told you !!!. You need to find Michael Goth. American who raced the car in71-72.

[Ted Walker]

If you look at the paragon racing site as found on the BT36 site they have 30-17 forsale (undergoing restoration again!!! ) and 30-20 for sale with "French racing history".I assume these are Bob bakers cars ????

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

Andrew. Thats what i told you !!!. You need to find Michael Goth. American who raced the car in71-72.

Goth raced BT30-17 in between Brabham and Moser, not after Moser. Its last race in the Coombs team with Brabham driving was at Tulln-Langenlebarn on 13 Sep 1970. It then went to Goth who used it at Imola, Hockenheim and Ashkelon. It then went to Moser who raced it five times in 1971 before he got his new BT36.

The next step in the live of BT30-17 is unknown. Beat once told us (IIRC) that he wasn't around when the car was sold so didn't know where it went. If it was exchanged for the BT36 then its history is more likely to continue in the UK. If not, its history should continue in Switzerland. I have not found any unexplained BT30s in French hillclimbs (and many the Swiss crowd usually entered the events along their border) but maybe it was only used in minor events and slaloms. If Beat is right, BT30-17 shouldn't exist after 1971.

Allen

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

Andrew. Thats what i told you !!!. You need to find Michael Goth. American who raced the car in71-72.

Ted what I hadn't appreciated is that S-M had been the owner for 20 years prior to the auction, in fact since 1976.
The fact that he was ignorant of the bag tank concept suggests to me that he knew very little about race cars and yet he bought it in 1976? It sounds to me more like he was an opportunistic recent buyer.

The story really doesn't rate high on my credibility scale but stranger things have happened I guess.

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Beat once told us (IIRC) that he wasn't around when the car was sold so didn't know where it went......Allen

"it" being in the singular would have to refer to BT36-11. One would almost have to conclude that BT30-17 was parked, be it in England or Switzerland.

Andrew

[Ted Walker]

SM knew nothing about the car when we first made contact apart from the fact that he thought it was once raced by JYS. Alan why cant a car just be tucked away in Switzerland and not used. I know of lots of cars that are still tucked away in 2008.

[allenbrown]

No reason at all why not Ted. Many F2 cars aren't used after their first season. I was just making the point that I hadn't seen any sign of it after 1971.

[Andrew Fellowes]

SM knew nothing about it? Yet according to Coys he had owned it since 1976. That's remarkable.

Andrew

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

Julian goes on to say that Alistair Walker told him he later sold the car (BT30-26) to Tommy Reid with 2 FAVs. Who did a couple of races with it.

Motoring News confirms this: MN 1 Jul 1971 p19 "Al Walker ... has sold his faithful Brabham BT30 and its Hart-maintained engines to Tommy Reid". Clearly BT30-26, not BT30-20.

So how does it get to Howlings two months later?

[Andrew Fellowes]

!!!!! as you posted Allen I was scratching my head looking at;
1971 A/S July 29 p.62
Brabham BT30 F2 car, ex Alistair Walker, fitted 1971 spec Brian Hart FVA, new low profile tyres, extinguisher, wings etc., ready to race £3750
Bob Howlings Racing Cars

[allenbrown]

So just four weeks later...

[Ted Walker]

Perhaps the fact that Al walker owned 2 Bt30s ie 20 and 26 might help !!!!!!!!!!!

[allenbrown]

As I said in post 588 Ted, this is clearly a reference to BT30-26. Chassis 20 had long since moved on.

[allenbrown]

Bob Howlings is out at Rufforth on 24 July in his "ex-Al Walker Brabham-FVA BT30" the same day Cullen races BT30-20 at Kirkistown. MN 29 Jul 1971 p19.

So it looks like Reid never raced BT30-26.

[Andrew Fellowes]

While it's not very important I would like to know what Tommy was up to, buying privately and then selling to a dealer is not the usual way to make a profit,

Andrew

[Bryan Miller]

Perhaps Tommy Reid purchased car with engines [ plural] and sold with engine [ singular ] for same price as purchased thereby obtaining basically a free FVA.

[allenbrown]

I just saw a mention of Howlings installing a new Hart FVA in preceding week. Maybe he had plural FVAs.

[allenbrown]

BT30-24

Albert Obrist (not Hans) is second at "Luzembourg's Loretzwiler hillclimb on Easter Monday" in his ex-Dubler Brabham BT30. Motoring News 13 Apr 1972 p21.

This is the same BT30 that Pignard drives just three weeks later at Hebecrevon.

Could Albert Obrist and Hans Obrist be two unrelated people who just happen to have two different Brabhams at about the same time? Who was behind Team Obrist in F2 in 1971? Albert or Hans?

[Andrew Fellowes]

well I'd say Albert was, Team Obrist ran BT30-24 and Albert advertised it 1972 A/S Jan 20. p.44
Hans seems to have driven F3 in 1967 & 1968. So far I cant find anything to connect the two (except that Albert's company is H Obrist !!)

Andrew

[allenbrown]

I just went back to all my original sources to check I haven't mistaken one Obrist for another an it's:

Codroz: Hans Obrist + BT16 (Sport Moteur) or 'Obrist' + BT36 (Autosprint)
Loretzwiler: Albert Obrist + ex-Dubler BT30 (Autosport)
Freiburg-Schauinsland: Hans Obrist + BT36 (Autocourse); not mentioned (Autosprint)

Can anyone who might have Sport Auto confirm if it covers Codroz (19 March 1972) or Loretzwiler (3 April 1972).

[allenbrown]

I've been googling. Hans Obrist had also won his class at Loretzwiler in 1971 in a "F2 Brabham" (source) and had been at St Ursanne and Ollon Villars later in 1971, again in a Brabham (source). Also, Hans Obrist owned a Brabham BT16 (chassis no. F2-2-65 - source) so it's possible that Sport Moteur have got it right ('BT16') and Autosprint and Autocourse have got it wrong ('BT36').