Revolutionary FW25?

power&glory · 7 Sep 2002, 02:43 (Ref:375041)

Frank Williams and Berger are talking about next year and it sounds like a bright future is ahead, and Frank talks about Juan Pablo being the "team driver" for next year, which is awesome as he is the greatest driver in the whole wide world, but what does "team dirver" mean, and is Ralf signed up for next year or what? (i'd luv to see him leave!)

Lee Janotta · 7 Sep 2002, 03:08 (Ref:375048)

Ralf'll still be there, but Juan's been firmly identified as the one to get the best parts, and if there are team orders they'll be in his favor. Plus he gets what _he_ wants when they're developing the new car.

This could be a fantastic car, or it could just be a magnificent failure. We'll see at Melbourne...

senna12 · 7 Sep 2002, 03:37 (Ref:375061)

By now the F2002 will have been thoroughly scouted, and I should imagine that Williams engineers ought to have a good idea about the direction they should be going in ( I consider the F2002 to be a good base to work from (no kidding!)).

They know they have to find 1-2 seconds a lap for next year, so being revolutionary is the only route to take. I certainly hope they are successful.

Inigo Montoya · 7 Sep 2002, 04:02 (Ref:375067)

Problem is... Ferrari actually HAS the F2002 to use as a base... And everyone keeps threatening to stay until 2006.

Jukebox · 7 Sep 2002, 04:04 (Ref:375069)

If they still adopt the raised nose cone and being the only team to use centrally mounted suspension this season then i'd say bye-bye to 2003 in terms of competitiveness. The ventury combo underneath the nose cone also don't do justice when the car ran thru kerbs or bumps..often smashing it to bits.

Jukebox · 7 Sep 2002, 04:17 (Ref:375072)

Another reason why BMW should go on their own...

Williams has always been proud of their own so called designs of not wanting to adopt to better setups such as...suspension mountings that all teams copied form Sauber, below mounted brake calipers that other teams copied from Ferrari and still :confused: maintaining the rear coil spring setup....i bet they won't copy the F2002 successful periscope shaped exit exhaust..others will

RaceCarFanatic · 7 Sep 2002, 05:55 (Ref:375090)

Frank Williams made a big mistake letting go of jenson button. He should of canned Ralf Scuhmacher. He hasn't been driving that well the whole season. That's why Juan is the #1 driver at Williams now. It would be better to have 2 Fast drivers like Ferrari then. Being like McLaren with Kimi hauling ass and David being slow as ****.

Valve Bounce · 7 Sep 2002, 06:33 (Ref:375094)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jukebox
Another reason why BMW should go on their own...

Williams has always been proud of their own so called designs of not wanting to adopt to better setups such as...suspension mountings that all teams copied form Sauber, below mounted brake calipers that other teams copied from Ferrari and still :confused: maintaining the rear coil spring setup....i bet they won't copy the F2002 successful periscope shaped exit exhaust..others will

Juke, you are difficult to follow - are you suggesting that BMW should ditch Williams, pay $45mill deposit, and build their own chassis for next year?
OK, I think you go on to say that it is bad that Williams won't copy the better ideas from Sauber, still using rear coil springs instead of the torsion bars used by the VW Beetle, and the exhausts of the Ferrari (although the latter innovation is surely up to BMW to adopt and not williams). The funny thing is that despite not adopting all the better designs and setups from the other cars they end up with a car that is only bettered by Ferrari. I suppose Ferrari can count themselves lucky that Frank Williams has been going about it the wrong way in his design.

Valve

Gt_R · 7 Sep 2002, 09:32 (Ref:375143)

The thing is...while Frank's department produce cars of great built quality, they are conservative in terms of design.

Frank's team do copy...but at a far slower rate than other teams... just look at their rear exhaust... abandoned Ferrari technology introduced in 98/99...

Frank ought to sell an even larger portion of the team to BMW so as to have more cash available to bring out the potential of his team...of course, let the young guys take a hand at imagining new ideas~

Ralf's Girl · 7 Sep 2002, 09:46 (Ref:375150)

Quote:

Originally posted by RaceCarFanatic
Frank Williams made a big mistake letting go of jenson button.

That one's been done to death.

Quote:

He should of canned Ralf Scuhmacher. He hasn't been driving that well the whole season.

A bit of F1 Trivia for you - name the Williams driver who's won a race this year.

Quote:

That's why Juan is the #1 driver at Williams now.

News to me.

Quote:

It would be better to have 2 Fast drivers like Ferrari then.

I for one would hate to see Williams start using Ferrari-like team orders, where one driver is only allowed to win if the other is comfortably leading the championship and feels like letting him!

I hate to say it, but I think 2003 will be much like this year. If Ferrari use the F2002 at the beginning of next year it'll be another situation where we all think Williams have caught up and it's going to be interesting, then they bring out a new car that's even better than the last one.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Plus he gets what _he_ wants when they're developing the new car.

Ah, so they're turning it into an off-road vehicle then?

DNQ · 7 Sep 2002, 09:55 (Ref:375154)

Quote:

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl
A bit of F1 Trivia for you - name the Williams driver who's won a race this year.

More Trivia. Name the Williams driver who got penalised and therefore gave Ralf the chance to win

I agree with all your replies to those quotes Steph, except that one - I just couldn't let that pass

Jordi · 7 Sep 2002, 10:29 (Ref:375182)

I wonder how Williams has been champion so many times if they are so slow in developing ideas.

Look at Prost last year: the 2000 Ferrari engine and a chassis very very similar to the McLaren MP4-16 of 2000. How many poles and wins did Prost get?

Tristan · 7 Sep 2002, 10:33 (Ref:375187)

It has been a rumour for a while now: BMW have one of, if not THE, best engines on the grid. And yet what has Williams won this year?? Nowt. Bosses at BMW appeart o be getting a little tierd. Nex years car had better be good....

Red · 7 Sep 2002, 10:58 (Ref:375202)

BMW is THE best engine. Witness is Montoya with his poles. The chassis doesn't help much though. Both performance-wise and reliability. (a bad chassis cna cause vibratios that result in DNF's, not only a bad engine or gearbox or whatever) I would agree with BMW bosses being a bit tired, but I believe that the Michelin bosses have had enough of it and probably they will make a choice next year. And I suspect that it won't be Williams.

Jordi · 7 Sep 2002, 11:19 (Ref:375206)

I don't think Michelin can say much of it... Thankfully there haven't been a lot of races in the rain...

Red · 7 Sep 2002, 11:25 (Ref:375208)

But I believe that Michelin is losing it in the dry as well. Might I add in hot conditions too. They have to make a decission, if they (Williams McLaren and Michelin) cannot make 2 winning cars.... at least they should try to build 1.

Legend · 7 Sep 2002, 14:28 (Ref:375265)

This will be the new F1 team of 2003! BMWillMaCedes!

Mr V · 7 Sep 2002, 18:35 (Ref:375328)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
They have to make a decission, if they (Williams McLaren and Michelin) cannot make 2 winning cars.... at least they should try to build 1.

As both teams only have one win apeice, Michelin would have to look at other things between the two teams, and those things would be pole positions, Williams (Montoya more like) 6, McLaren 0, Williams 86 points, McLaren 57 points! Don't get me wrong, i do like McLaren, but if i was incharge of Michelin i know what team i'd go with, but i would try my hardest to try and persuade Frank to sign up Kimi alongside JPM!

Jordi · 7 Sep 2002, 19:06 (Ref:375345)

Goodyear should come back, then the three big teams would be strong

Gt_R · 8 Sep 2002, 03:33 (Ref:375530)

Maybe it's time to be critical.

I think Frank and Head needs to do some serious reflection on their team. Since their last WDC in 97, the whole team seems to have stalled in terms of innovations and design. Every year since then, the team had produced some of the most conservative and lacking designs on the grid.

No doubt, Williams cars are built to very high quality standards... sturdy and strong. But their aero side is relatively poor, which is worsened by the fact that they do not take risk at evaluating new solutions that could solve problems. This is a shame, considering that much smaller teams like Arrows, Jordan and Sauber actually bring out some interesting ideas to the sports, not to mention Ferrari which really began to lead on the innovative front.

Mclaren, with Ron, pays extreme attention to details of their cars... the Mclaren has one of the best chassis around. Although they no longer are as ahead in terms of innovations, however, they are quick to integrate other team's proven ideas to their own, and hence produce a great car. Pity the engine though, when Ilmor somehow underestimated their rivals.

Just look at how long it took Williams to exit the exhaust from the covers, how the Williams 2002 car look almost as square as yesterday's bricks compared to the handsome Mclaren and stylish Ferrari...how the nose is still as high as and as straight as the nearest flagpole. You would wonder how Williams, with one of the better resourced technical team could actually not do a better job.

Red · 8 Sep 2002, 07:12 (Ref:375556)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
As both teams only have one win apeice, Michelin would have to look at other things between the two teams, and those things would be pole positions, Williams (Montoya more like) 6, McLaren 0, Williams 86 points, McLaren 57 points!

Among others things Mr v! If I were Michelin boss I would chose a team that offers more perspectives and makes less gaffes!

Right now what Williams has to offer is only an extremely powerful engine that gets poles but seldom transform them into podium finishes. For the reasons Gt_R mentioned I would rather chose McLaren.

Anyway, any new gossips about a possible Goodyear comeback? That would surely help the matter, probably not for the first year but surely for the second..

Valve Bounce · 8 Sep 2002, 09:48 (Ref:375602)

Maybe Michelin should concentrate on the most consistant team in F1 - Minardi. It is an undeniable fact that Minardi has been the most consistant team in both quals as well as during races, and makes the least gaffes in any racing season.

Valve

Red · 8 Sep 2002, 09:59 (Ref:375610)

Indeed... it is the most consistent team. And their foreseeable chances of success that might interest Michelin are also great. Gazprom money would surely bring them a Ferrari 2004 engine, Newey as their chief designer and Schumacher as main driver.

Valve Bounce · 8 Sep 2002, 10:05 (Ref:375614)

......and maybe the FIA will change the rules to allow Minardi to run on LPG

Valve

pole2pole · 8 Sep 2002, 14:19 (Ref:375745)

Maybe this is the reason why ferrari have had so much success in recent times could it be that not only williams but also mclaren have been working on something completely new in design. Its also great to here williams and mclaren haved agreed to work together and help michelin reach a higher level of performance this is a very smart move think about it you have got two top teams working together to create the super tyre

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