Racecar Recovery

[mixxer]

I think its time that the V8's have dedicated crash recovery crews and trucks.
There have been a few incidents this year that everybody is aware of which have resulted in a lot of bad press for the series in general, so surely they could train and equipe some crews in what is required to quickly and safely remove damaged racecars.
What I'm proposing is that they bring a core group of people who would handle the car removal.
How is it done now re "do the towies have contracts with the track or with the event organiser's" ?

[GTRMagic]

All official volunteers I thought...

But you are right, a dedicated recovery and FIV Medical vehicle at each round, crewed by the same people, isnt too much to ask.

I was thinking along the lines of the Simple Green recovery teams that were at Indy, and did a lot of the incident management for that event, in conjunction with local corner workers where appropriate

[mixxer]

not only FIV but also the appropriate car recovery equipement.
Cart, Nascar and NHRA all utilise similar systems that I know of.

[GTRMagic]

Sounds good to me... wonder who AVESCO would get to fund it??

[jetsetter]

I think it is a great idea & well worth AVESCO looking at.

[Crash Test]

Recovery recovery wise, doesn't Grant Briggs rock up to most of the rounds?

Medical wise, there was talk of a bus being turned into a mobile medical centre not long ago. I don't think there is necessarily a problem with the volunteers we currently have in rescue etc, the CART team came about after some very serious incidents and a lack of knowledge/incompetence on the resuers behalf.

[PVDA]

As a sometime Recovery and sometime Safety Team person I have to agree that the level of training and experience as well as the suitability of the equipment varies around the country.

A V8Supercar, or any car with a low spoiler for that matter, wont go up the tray of any slide back tilt tray available in the country and this means ramps must be used and in some cases the front spoiler removed, this all takes time.

If you need to see an example of how a co-ordinated Safety & Recovery Team works you only need to visit Winton.

[mixxer]

Crash my main focus is really on the car recovery (Tow Trucks,Flattops) not the volunteers in rescue, they do a great job, we wouldnt be racing if it wasnt for them.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Recovery crews have come in for a bit of flack over the years, but all my experience has been very positive. They're friendly, helpful and careful and haven't put a scratch on my cars.

[mixxer]

I agree David, but I think it is something that needs addressing lest we have repeats of the incidents at HV and Indy where the removal of cars took abnormal amounts of time.
pls note Im not slagging off at the existing volunteer towies (never know when you might need 1) just looking for improvements.

[Matt H]

y go to winton a see dedceent recovery, we all know the best recovery come out of phillip island, hence being the cheif of recovery ast the gp and the only crew including the cheif to sucessfully use a tilt tray to put an f1 on it

say no more wintons good, p.i's better

[Matt H]

Also ive seen v8 supercars go up the back of a slide tilt trtay at phillip island too

[Wizzby]

They need somebody who knows what they're doing to supervise at least! I watched the crews at Barbagallo recover a Mini that had lost a wheel. We were all yelling at them to just lift the car up (or the broken corner at least) and plop it on the back of the truck, there were at least 10 guys there, should have been easy (we did it with 8 high schoolers to one of our teachers...) But no, they insisted on pulling it up, dragging the chassis on the ground and doing more damage to the car than the crash did! Hopeless...

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by Wizzby
They need somebody who knows what they're doing to supervise at least! I watched the crews at Barbagallo recover a Mini that had lost a wheel. We were all yelling at them to just lift the car up (or the broken corner at least) and plop it on the back of the truck, there were at least 10 guys there, should have been easy (we did it with 8 high schoolers to one of our teachers...) But no, they insisted on pulling it up, dragging the chassis on the ground and doing more damage to the car than the crash did! Hopeless...

They used to use tilt trays at Adelaide as well. When Mika Hakkinen had his dreadful crash at Brewery Bend his car came back on a tilt tray, although I suspect a crane was used to get it there.

To certain extent its fit for purpose. In CART, F1 and other open wheel categories the cars are light enough that even small tractor mounted cranes are up to the task.

A V8Supercar is another matter. At close to three times the weight, the cranes need to be proportinally larger. But more of a problem is how to sling a touring car. Straps under the car than attached over the roof? Awkward and time consuming if the car isn't on it's wheels, but still awkward if it is. Additionally, the weight on the straps is likely to deform panels or turret when lifting. The only practical way to crane a touring car is with a forklift, and even then you'd e damaging exhaust systems. So you use tow trucks.

Tow truck drivers attend accidents just as bad on the streets as they do at race tracks. I'm not sure exactly what you would gain with a "dedicated vehicle recovery team." Yes there have been some problems, but they are isolated incidents.

The biggest drama with Hidden Valley, was the determination that the last lap HAD to be green. While race control was informed that the lap would be clear by the time the Safety Car reached it, it was obviously not. While the safety car had come in, there is no reason the green flag still had to be shown. There is however tremendous pressure to get at least one green flag lap in at the end of the race as a yellow flag finish, while it may be safer, it is embarrassing and bad for 'the show'.'

[Zinger]

Originally posted by Matt H
y go to winton a see dedceent recovery, we all know the best recovery come out of phillip island, hence being the cheif of recovery ast the gp and the only crew including the cheif to sucessfully use a tilt tray to put an f1 on it

say no more wintons good, p.i's better

wasn't that they same guy who destroyed faulkners car at Hidden Valley when it fell of the back of the truck.

[Matt H]

zinger i doubt it was the p.i boys i doubt any of em go to hidden valley any more

[Crash Test]

Also, I think the QR guys are very good, especially the band of 4wd guys that pull cars out of the kitty litter, so long as the car has a tow point, and not one that is spiritually connected to the car

[PVDA]

Originally posted by Matt H
Also I've seen v8 supercars go up the back of a slide tilt tray at phillip island too

You can get a V8 or Open Wheeler onto the tray quite easily with the correct use of extension ramps.
How do I know? 'cos I've done it many times including a F4000 (Formula Holden) which has similar ground clearance to an F1.

By the way the PI recovery guys wander up to Winton for the big events and the Winton Recovery wander south to PI & Sandown, it's just the person in the chiefs hat changes depending on the track.

Most events that aren't club based have the same recovery team members working, hence the experience of the Victorian Recovery groups.

[Chucky]

Did someone mention Winton? I saw a recovery crew pull the front wing clean off an F3 at this year's PROCAR round when they wrapped the tow rope around the wing mounts.

[humpty]

Originally posted by Matt H
y go to winton a see dedceent recovery, we all know the best recovery come out of phillip island, hence being the cheif of recovery ast the gp and the only crew including the cheif to sucessfully use a tilt tray to put an f1 on it

say no more wintons good, p.i's better

hey matt we at Winton also do recovery at the Island " THE A TEAM "

[Morris 1100]

I saw a Formula Holden get dropped off the back of a tow truck at Winton ....

[humpty]

Originally posted by Morris 1100
I saw a Formula Holden get dropped off the back of a tow truck at Winton ....

WHEN?????

[Onlooker]

So with evryone up to speed on recovery who should have showed that fire marshal how to remove the pin from the handle at the Besnard BBQ last week end

[Morris 1100]

Originally posted by humpty
WHEN?????

1998 (or was it 97?) It was hanging from the jib of the tow truck on a sling through the roll bar, the car was hanging sideways behind the truck.
The truck cut through the tyre wall where the straight used to go into the esses and he clipped the tyres with the car and it fell down!

[rusky26]

Originally posted by Onlooker
So with evryone up to speed on recovery who should have showed that fire marshal how to remove the pin from the handle at the Besnard BBQ last week end

and tell Besnard not to lift the bonnet when there is a fire under it