Honey, we need to talk about our boy Scuderia .. AKA KeystoneF1

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by peebee2

What do you want? Witness statements from everyone who works in the paddock? Or do you prefer press comment from journos who can’t tell their arse from their elbow?

The problem being that you keep intimating that you are an insider of various racing paddocks, but are unable or unwilling to back up that assertion. For all I know, you could just be relaying things that you have seen written on toilet walls.

I find it a mystery that you claim to have inside information from both F1 and the far more humble BTCC paddocks. But nothing presented to this forum to back up those assertions.

[chillibowl]

no no, he should totally get his boss out here to verify all the work related things he overhears in his work place and then repeats online to a bunch of strangers!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

no no, he should totally get his boss out here to verify all the work related things he overhears in his work place and then repeats online to a bunch of strangers!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

What do you want? Witness statements from everyone who works in the paddock? Or do you prefer press comment from journos who can’t tell their arse from their elbow?

In addition to Mike's point, I find it hard to believe there can be any general consensus within the F1 circus on such a topic. Imagine I presented myself to be a knowledgeable F1 fan to an F1 newbie at a party. I say things like... "Generally those on 10/10th F1 forum, Lewis Hamilton is the greatest F1 driver that ever lived!" And those of us here know that there is no such level of agreement. At best it might be a heathy dose of my personal bias along with some percentage of what is actually said here.

It is the uphill challenge you have of appointing yourself as the spokesman for the F1 paddock, wanting to remain anonymous (and unverifiable), making firm and confident statements as "fact" on topics and lastly as much as not, comments that otherwise are not reported elsewhere. You may be exactly who you say you are, but provide no ability for us to do anything other than trust you. And your personal style makes that trust hard.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

no no, he should totally get his boss out here to verify all the work related things he overhears in his work place and then repeats online to a bunch of strangers!

His boss might not appreciate what is being said. It might be accurate or it might not! Regardless, we all know something. We don't all talk about it publicly. And we also all know co-workers or peers who should know what they are talking about, but at the same time clearly get it wrong.

Richard

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The problem being that you keep intimating that you are an insider of various racing paddocks, but are unable or unwilling to back up that assertion. For all I know, you could just be relaying things that you have seen written on toilet walls.

I find it a mystery that you claim to have inside information from both F1 and the far more humble BTCC paddocks. But nothing presented to this forum to back up those assertions.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

no no, he should totally get his boss out here to verify all the work related things he overhears in his work place and then repeats online to a bunch of strangers!

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

In addition to Mike's point, I find it hard to believe there can be any general consensus within the F1 circus on such a topic. Imagine I presented myself to be a knowledgeable F1 fan to an F1 newbie at a party. I say things like... "Generally those on 10/10th F1 forum, Lewis Hamilton is the greatest F1 driver that ever lived!" And those of us here know that there is no such level of agreement. At best it might be a heathy dose of my personal bias along with some percentage of what is actually said here.

It is the uphill challenge you have of appointing yourself as the spokesman for the F1 paddock, wanting to remain anonymous (and unverifiable), making firm and confident statements as "fact" on topics and lastly as much as not, comments that otherwise are not reported elsewhere. You may be exactly who you say you are, but provide no ability for us to do anything other than trust you. And your personal style makes that trust hard.

Richard

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

His boss might not appreciate what is being said. It might be accurate or it might not! Regardless, we all know something. We don't all talk about it publicly. And we also all know co-workers or peers who should know what they are talking about, but at the same time clearly get it wrong.

Richard

Thank you for your comments gentlemen, they have saved me from having to add my own ten-pennyworth...

[S griffin]

The problem with the current Ferrari is it just isn't fast enough on enough tracks. On tracks it does suit it's a contender, but it's not often enough

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The problem being that you keep intimating that you are an insider of various racing paddocks, but are unable or unwilling to back up that assertion. For all I know, you could just be relaying things that you have seen written on toilet walls.

I find it a mystery that you claim to have inside information from both F1 and the far more humble BTCC paddocks. But nothing presented to this forum to back up those assertions.

Thanks. I work with drivers, hence knowledge from various paddocks.

I'm not worried about what my boss says, as I don't have a boss.

Over the years I've got to know many people well, high and low, at most teams in single-seaters and a lot in sportscars and touring cars.

I never said that I thought people generally think Charles is the best driver in F1, but I know well that if you asked people who is the outright fastest driver, the majority in the F1 paddock would say him. Whether people here want to believe that or not is up to them and, at the end of the day, I really don't care that much. I post here for fun and occasionally to pass the time. Sometimes I learn things here, which is good, and sometimes I like to enlighten those who may think things that I know are wrong.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The problem being that you keep intimating that you are an insider of various racing paddocks, but are unable or unwilling to back up that assertion. For all I know, you could just be relaying things that you have seen written on toilet walls.

I find it a mystery that you claim to have inside information from both F1 and the far more humble BTCC paddocks. But nothing presented to this forum to back up those assertions.

How dare you question the almighty random internet expert with a meh track record.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

How dare you question the almighty random internet expert with a meh track record.

LOL, when you’ve finished your schoolwork why not give some examples of this meh-ness?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Thanks. I work with drivers, hence knowledge from various paddocks.

I'm not worried about what my boss says, as I don't have a boss.

Well, I'm guessing then that you must be a hairdresser or barber to the "stars" or z-list celebs and obviously self-employed.

[broadrun96]

Ouch

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by peebee2

LOL, when you’ve finished your schoolwork why not give some examples of this meh-ness?

Ah, the last resort of the poor argument. Notice how I did not resort to personal insults but rather your **** poor record of claims you've made, and your claims have made haven't been Nostradamusian but rather Miss Cleo

[Born Racer]

We're veering close to crossing the line (if it hasn't already been) of 'attack the post, not the poster', people.

Regarding Leclerc, I've always rated him, but from my armchair, Sainz seems to be catching up to him on pace. It's often a close thing in F1 with the talent levels at the top and I don't think I've ever seen Leclerc pushed so hard by a team-mate as he is being now. It certainly doesn't make him look as outstanding. I can see why his 'stock' (basically perceived value) may be falling slightly.

[crmalcolm]

May I request a clarification on the level of 'inside' knowledge please?


If you state that -

Originally Posted by peebee2

Thanks. I work with drivers, hence knowledge from various paddocks.

Then should the information claimed to come from inside the paddock not be qualified as:

Originally Posted by peebee2

the majority [of drivers who I work with] in the F1 paddock would say

?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Ah, the last resort of the poor argument. Notice how I did not resort to personal insults but rather your **** poor record of claims you've made, and your claims have made haven't been Nostradamusian but rather Miss Cleo

Except you can’t find a record of poor claims can you?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

May I request a clarification on the level of 'inside' knowledge please?


If you state that -


Then should the information claimed to come from inside the paddock not be qualified as:

?

Except everyone in driver management knows everyone else, and a large part of each weekend is spent chatting socially.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Except everyone in driver management knows everyone else, and a large part of each weekend is spent chatting socially.

When people chat socially, that always involves a lot of gossip.

[Richard C]

To get back a few pages/days in this thread before we got derailed a bit..

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The funny thing is watching the Sky broadcasts, and its almost like Ferrari doesnt exist. They really get no love.. and there is almost an EXPECTATION for something to go wrong with strategy or performance, or a dud pitstop or some other management intervention to two drivers who keep arguing with their pitwall...

Weird state of affairs...

I felt the same way. There seems to be an expectations as to Ferrari is going to screw up a pitstop or strategy call. I have no strong opinion regarding how Ferrari seems to be trending. I guess in some ways the operational stuff (pitstops, strategy) maybe is improving, but the car itself seems to be going backwards.

Historically all of this seems to be torches and pitchforks aimed at the team principal. What is being said about Vasseur these days? You can't expect him to turn the ship quickly, and maybe he is still in a bit of a honeymoon phase. But at what point does he get a target on his back?

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

We're veering close to crossing the line (if it hasn't already been) of 'attack the post, not the poster', people.

Regarding Leclerc, I've always rated him, but from my armchair, Sainz seems to be catching up to him on pace. It's often a close thing in F1 with the talent levels at the top and I don't think I've ever seen Leclerc pushed so hard by a team-mate as he is being now. It certainly doesn't make him look as outstanding. I can see why his 'stock' (basically perceived value) may be falling slightly.

I've wondered how much is the regs/car base design leads to a balance that's more in Sainz's wheelhouse than Leclerc. When he is on it Charles seems to be able to drive away from most of the field but when it's not there it's not there. But then that leads to the question of do you want a slightly slower but similar in setup/driving style #2 or have to chase the car between 2, and how far apart are guys who come up driving open wheelers in driving style. I could see it more in sportscars, varying cars, engines, etc as you work your way up, rather than open wheelers who follow the FIA path

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

To get back a few pages/days in this thread before we got derailed a bit..


I felt the same way. There seems to be an expectations as to Ferrari is going to screw up a pitstop or strategy call. I have no strong opinion regarding how Ferrari seems to be trending. I guess in some ways the operational stuff (pitstops, strategy) maybe is improving, but the car itself seems to be going backwards.

Historically all of this seems to be torches and pitchforks aimed at the team principal. What is being said about Vasseur these days? You can't expect him to turn the ship quickly, and maybe he is still in a bit of a honeymoon phase. But at what point does he get a target on his back?

Richard

Well poor quali makes you try to off beat plans and try to find something everyone else isn't doing, when it works you look brilliant, when it doesn't the media feasts

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Regarding Leclerc, I've always rated him, but from my armchair, Sainz seems to be catching up to him on pace. It's often a close thing in F1 with the talent levels at the top and I don't think I've ever seen Leclerc pushed so hard by a team-mate as he is being now. It certainly doesn't make him look as outstanding. I can see why his 'stock' (basically perceived value) may be falling slightly.

Basically the more the Ferari understeers, the less Leclerc's advantage and vice versa. A bit like Verstappen at Red Bull too, really.

Some may argue that Spanish sponsors have too much political influence to encourage Ferrari to develop in a direction of a settled rear for Sainz, instead of the loose rear that Leclerc & Verstappen prefer and which Red Bull - the contrary - has no hesitation in providing for the latter.

Personally, the aspect I liked most is having a strong front end. At the beginning of the [2022] season the insertion [at the front end] was just what I like.

- Leclerc
https://scuderiafans.com/charles-lec...5-car-in-2022/

A car cannot be fast with understeer. It's impossible

- Verstappen
https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/01...th-understeer/

The relative influence of Spanish and Mexican sponsors to guide car development at Scuderia Ferrari and not guide car development at Red Bull Racing is most curious!

I haven’t been as comfortable with it [the development of the car] as I was in the beginning, let’s put it that way. I think I’ve got some work to do to understand what’s going on and hopefully have a more straightforward weekend here in Austria.

- Perez
https://the-race.com/formula-1/perez...-away-from-me/

Red Bull Racing's attitude: "tough." Scuderia Ferrari seem unwilling to do the same - due to undue influence of Santander and other Spanish sponsors? - to the (probable) annoyance of Leclerc who would like development in the direction of a strong front end, like "perfect" balance the Ferrari had at the start of 2022.

IMO designating, the ultimately potentially faster, Leclerc as the clear number one driver would be best. I think Santander and the Sainz faction has undue influence on car development.

Leclerc was at his best when the rear end was loose at the start of 2022 where Sainz was struggling and crashing regularly. Why not put the Ferrari back to that kind of balance? Yes, even Leclerc will drop it sometimes with such a loose car, but that's fine!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

IMO designating, the ultimately potentially faster, Leclerc as the clear number one driver would be best. I think Santander and the Sainz faction has undue influence on car development.

Leclerc was at his best when the rear end was loose at the start of 2022 where Sainz was struggling and crashing regularly. Why not put the Ferrari back to that kind of balance? Yes, even Leclerc will drop it sometimes with such a loose car, but that's fine!

and i suspect being offered a true number 1 designation at Ferrari and a car tailored to said driver's preferences would be an additional incentive for that driver to stay long term.

so for myself, i agree there is a strong logic for teams to looking to fight at the top to have a clear hierarchy. treating everyone equally is for sure noble and right for almost all areas of life but is somewhat counter intuitive in highly competitive environments imo.

even if you have a stable full, you still need to pick one horse to win!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Yes, even Leclerc will drop it sometimes with such a loose car, but that's fine!

Is it? When you're up against Max and RBR, I'd suggest unforced errors are a long way from fine.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Is it? When you're up against Max and RBR, I'd suggest unforced errors are a long way from fine.

Better to crash from the lead in spectacular fashion, than take a dull P3 or P4! The 2020 Red Bull was so pointy that even Max crashed at times (usually in free practice), never mind Albon lacking confidence in it... this did NOT deter Red Bull from persisting with this philosophy! When you are up against Lewis and Mercedes, you need all the performance you can get.