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18 Sep 2012, 10:48 (Ref:3137736) | #1 | |
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Budget cap revival
The teams are open to the suggestion of a budget cap. Which would mean freer (but not ridiculously freer) technical regulations. F1 would be more about thinking than spending. There are apparently three options open to the teams. One is tighter technical regulations (Red Bull have championed that particular route), a budget cap (Sauber and probably most other teams of that ilk), a resource restriction (said to be favoured by most top teams).
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102627 Your thoughts. |
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18 Sep 2012, 13:02 (Ref:3137809) | #2 | ||
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Here we go again !
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18 Sep 2012, 13:17 (Ref:3137814) | #3 | ||
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Budget cap, open regs, please.
Simple as that. Selby |
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18 Sep 2012, 14:10 (Ref:3137832) | #4 | ||
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i would like to see a combination of an overall budget cap and a RRA for certain key components.
i would also think a mechanism is required to discourage overspending short of changing championship standings after the accountants have figured out who spent what. the NBA has done some interesting things with a soft salary cap and the application of a luxury tax to penalize those who go over. no one losses their title but the owners get penalized financially with the proceeds being distributed to those that dont violate the rules. |
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18 Sep 2012, 14:35 (Ref:3137844) | #5 | ||
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F1 needs a budget cap, period. How to make it happen and how to control it, can be done, it's up to the teams, really.
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18 Sep 2012, 15:00 (Ref:3137856) | #6 | ||
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Don't blame me. This should have been sorted out ages ago.
I rather think that a budget cap will preclude vast amounts of R&D, so it may be wise to stick to what you know works, rather than go out on a limb with anything too risky that can't be turned around within your budget. Quote:
Indeed it can be done. Once they sort out what can and can't be included within a fixed budget. Some teams don't even own a wind tunnel, never mind have the backing of a car manufacturers spending and technological input. |
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19 Sep 2012, 01:44 (Ref:3138179) | #7 | ||
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[QUOTE=Marbot;3137856]Don't blame me. This should have been sorted out ages ago.
Your special, we love to blame you... |
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20 Sep 2012, 10:11 (Ref:3139007) | #8 | |
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18 Sep 2012, 19:45 (Ref:3138043) | #9 | ||
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The sooner we can get rid of Marussia, HRT and Caterham, the better. All they do is get in the way of real competitors. I would much prefer an 18 car lineup than a 24 car lineup consisting of 18 F1 cars and 6 moving chicanes. |
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18 Sep 2012, 20:04 (Ref:3138057) | #10 | |||
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Ergo: the differences are very small these days, and I would not call the 3 last teams moving chicanes. Caterham is close to bridging the gap to the Toro Rosso's. |
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18 Sep 2012, 20:06 (Ref:3138059) | #11 | |||
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18 Sep 2012, 23:29 (Ref:3138160) | #12 | |
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It's precisely because F1 wants to keep these "sub" teams, that a budget cap seems necessary. It would certainly be that a budget cap would be set at well under the figure that Sauber are now throwing at the sport, and believe me, that's not a lot!
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19 Sep 2012, 21:27 (Ref:3138683) | #13 | ||
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Limit the grid to 20 cars, and only allow teams to participate in any GP if they first post pre season testing lap times for both cars within 107%. |
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20 Sep 2012, 21:05 (Ref:3139283) | #14 | ||
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Perhaps we need a Concord definition of "crap"? |
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20 Sep 2012, 21:21 (Ref:3139298) | #15 | ||
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Give the top teams third drivers, and they will bring the top drivers to F1. Allow also ran teams in F1, and it will be littered with pay drivers either holding up, or crashing into real drivers. BTW, I would love to own an F1 team, but I can't afford it. I don't demand that F1 lowers it's entry fee to a couple of hundred pounds, I just accept it. That is what the likes of Virgin should do. |
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20 Sep 2012, 21:38 (Ref:3139309) | #16 | ||
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If do Montezemelo is seriously suggesting 3 car efforts then it will be the start of F1 franchising. That way madness (and reduced grids) lies. |
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21 Sep 2012, 00:45 (Ref:3139379) | #17 | |||
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Quote:
Correct. Monty, as usual, is thinking of himself. How ironic that he's not (yet) spoken out against the suggestion of a 'budget cap'. |
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28 Sep 2012, 04:08 (Ref:3142829) | #18 | |
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I would be fine with this:
"If you put constraints on all those [technical] things then we are in danger of spoiling the sport, and I would certainly advocate a restraint on resources. You cannot spend more than this; you cannot have more people than this and you have to do the best job you can with what you have got. Then you still allow innovation and you still allow the spirit of F1. For me it is definitely the way to go." The question then becomes how do you control costs for manufacturers who can hide costs in their huge companies with all their subsidiaries? I mean, wouldn't you need to hire tons of accountants to scour all the worldwide books of Ferrari? |
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28 Sep 2012, 11:00 (Ref:3143029) | #19 | |
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You're right. That is the question. But the FIA have said time and again that it's completely doable. You just and out huge penalties i.e. disqualification from championship for any transgressions. A car company that is demonstrated to be fraudulent can lose a lot of business in no time at all.
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29 Sep 2012, 22:14 (Ref:3143923) | #20 | ||
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Budget caps are unworkable, as well as being totally against what F1 is about. Keep the poor people out of F1 IMHO. If you can't afford F1, there is always GP2, GP3, FR, FF etc. F1 is the best of the best, not the people who need drivers to provide funding for an also ran ****ty car to so much as pay for tyres. If you need a budget cap to be in F1, don't be in F1. End of... |
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29 Sep 2012, 23:01 (Ref:3143930) | #21 | ||
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Why do you think it is that even Ferrari are calling for costs to be reduced still further? "On Wednesday, Montezemolo says on Ferrari's website that F1 cannot "ignore" the crisis anymore and "we need to tackle urgently and with determination the question of costs." Montezemolo adds "Ferrari is in agreement with the FIA's position that drastic intervention is required ... the question has to be tackled at the highest level, without further delay." http://espn.go.com/racing/f1/story/_...nancial-crisis You'll notice that Montezemolo agrees with the FIA. You see. There's this saying about living in the real world. Oh and with regard to ******* off Ferrari, etc. If the V6 engines are shelved, it's bye-bye Renault. Your move. Last edited by Marbot; 29 Sep 2012 at 23:15. |
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1 Oct 2012, 21:27 (Ref:3144834) | #22 | ||
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At the end of the day, F1 can afford to tell Red Bull to **** off a lot easier than it can Ferrari or Mercedes. Anyway, back to the real world. The sort of cost cap to be imposed that Ferrari or Merc want, or that Red Bull want is still so far out of reach for the likes of HRT, Virgin and Caterham that it becomes irrelevant. Red Bull would impose a 100 m on the engine and 300 m on the chassis, whereas merc and Ferrari would be the other way round. Either way, HRT, Virgin and Caterham would still be searching for a couple of million. A budget cap for Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull, McLaren etc is an untouchable dream for the also rans. |
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2 Oct 2012, 15:51 (Ref:3145256) | #23 | |||
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not saying that there aren't those that wouldn't stoop to that level but just saying that its more than the FIA they would have to answer too. F1 being a monopoly sport they would probably find themselves in an EU anti trust court and they have significantly more authority...and then the tax man will come knocking. the framework for auditing companies is already in place at all levels of gov't. all that needs to happen is for the teams to agree on both a level and a system of penalties for violators. thats the problem and not a forensic accounting firms ability to get to the bottom of it. |
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2 Oct 2012, 16:33 (Ref:3145280) | #24 | ||
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2 Oct 2012, 21:52 (Ref:3145415) | #25 | ||
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EU Anti trust courts??? The FIA doesn't dictate EU law. It is a non profit making charity FFS. The FIA could mandate as many "rules" as it wants, it would have no meaning to EU Law. There is nothing illegal about representing certain costs as being associated with certain activities if they pay tax on this. The tax man doesn't give a rats arse if 200 million spent on road cars engine reliability is really spent on F1 cars performance, as long as it pays the tax on it. It isn't like it's road car division is exempt from tax. The FIA, as a charity, have no rights to demand anything from the manufacturers. Indeed, the only law that could come under question, is that of a charity demanding financial records from legal entities. The FIA is the only entity in this that could be clouted by the law. |
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