The one and only official 10/10ths BOP thread

[Great Dane]

Porsche drops 10kgs

Ferrari and Corvette gains 15Kgs

[gwyllion]

Where? When? Which topic did you mean to post this in?

[Pandamasque]

This is even better than the persistent 'Vulcan' ads in the DeltaWing thread.

[Spyderman]

[joeb]

I just found this old old thread and thought I'd resurrect it. The ACO is debuting a new automatic BOP system this season - all done by computer so that the politics are taken out of it:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...s-of-auto-bop/

It doesn't apply to Le Mans, and they won't touch anything until after the first 2 races, so it will be a while before we see how this works.

[OmerRS]

Latest BOP table updates;

WEC:
http://www.fia.com/events/world-endu...ance-committee

IMSA:
http://competitors.imsa.com/102016/2...ical-bulletins

[TzeiTzei]

BoP = garbage. Unfortunately in many series it seems to be the only option.

[WolfsburgRS]

Entirely set by a computer program eh? Time to put hackers on the payroll.

Found this pic of the new head of ACO BOP

[TF110]

I don't know why the Ford is lighter than the Ferrari.

[Richard Casto]

Originally Posted by joeb

all done by computer so that the politics are taken out of it

Quote from that article...

a mathematical algorithm will automatically set the adjustments for the next race

Politics can still creep back in. Humans create the algorithm and the BoP algorithm itself will likely be "balanced" over time as issues with it's design (nothing is perfect) is inevitably exposed. But... I think this is absolutely the right thing to do.

Richard

[Akrapovic]

IMO the absolutely right thing to do is stop using BOP for a development class.

I don't see how this will really change anything, other than possibly tie the organisers hands behind their back at times. The algorithm won't be perfect and will still have human elements involved. It could possibly be abused as well - Ford could run around at half speed in a way the computer calculates as legit, gives it a boost and then it magically ends up miles ahead. Which is exactly what happened last year.

I don't see this solving anything, and it's open to abuse. BOP is great...for GT3 cars. But GTE is a development class, and BOP goes against that.

[Richard Casto]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It could possibly be abused as well - Ford could run around at half speed in a way the computer calculates as legit, gives it a boost and then it magically ends up miles ahead. Which is exactly what happened last year.

I don't follow GTE as much as I used to, so I am out of the loop. I looked at the GTE technical regulations to see what sensors are mandated. As best as I can tell, it looks like stuff like intake, boost, restrictor throat and manifold pressures, lambda probe and various temp sensors. No mention of something like a torque sensor on the engine.

That doesn't sound like enough to really expose true performance in an objective way. I believe on the LMP1 cars they are required to provide a slew of values. Fuel pressure, fuel flow, boost pressure, various temps and most importantly... engine torque!

I suspect that with what is currently required for GTE, they can still hide performance if they want. While it is much harder to do with LMP1 because those cars are effectively on a dyno all the time. So the organizers know the true performance. Showing your hand when previously hidden just provides objective numbers as to how much you were previously sandbagging. I think on the LMP1 side, that can result in penalties (such as any cheating/sandbagging on the stated efficiency of your engine... BSFC)

It may be an unpopular opinion (due to cost), but I think they need to measure more on the GTE cars if they want to really get BoP correct. Hopefully they use more than just lap times and trap speed values!

Richard

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by joeb

I just found this old old thread and thought I'd resurrect it.

Top idea.

The ACO is debuting a new automatic BOP system this season - all done by computer so that the politics are taken out of it:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...s-of-auto-bop/

It doesn't apply to Le Mans, and they won't touch anything until after the first 2 races, so it will be a while before we see how this works.

I can see what they are trying to address here. I wonder if the computer code will be shared?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

That doesn't sound like enough to really expose true performance in an objective way. I believe on the LMP1 cars they are required to provide a slew of values. Fuel pressure, fuel flow, boost pressure, various temps and most importantly... engine torque!

I think your evaluation of the situation is correct, as evidenced by Ford last year. They ran with a trail of sand at Spa to the point where it was embarrassing watching the car short shifting up kemmel and getting absolutely no where near the rev limit. Then a late race yellow and a technical issue for a Ferrari meant they could sniff a win (despite the sand) and suddenly the car found a bag of pace. Despite the obvious sand bagging, they were given a BOP break for Le Mans, and they ran off into the distance miles faster than what they should've been able to do.

The ACO is not collecting enough data about the GTE cars performance to effectively BOP them without reasonable assurance that they are not being manipulated by dodgy practices. I don't see the downside of your suggestion of monitoring the GTE cars more closely. If they insist on going down the BOP route, then that is what they should be doing - otherwise they aren't doing the job effectively.

Funny you should mention a torque sensor. That was the plan the ACO put in place, was to have this mandated on all cars. That's the reason Porsche have given for them developing a brand new NA car, whilst everybody else went turbo. The ACO never did go down the torque sensor route and the result is Porsche regretting not using a turbo motor in the new GTE car.

In LMP1, you're right again. Porsche was penalised several times mid race for using too much fuel. They know exactly what is going on with the LMP1s, and as a result it's very rare we see an adjustment to the EoT. Unlike the BOP, which is adjusted so much that it's clearly a reaction to the race results rather than balancing of cars. Not that you should be balancing the GTE cars IMO, as it's meant to be a manufacturer backed development class.

[fieldodreams79]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHozn0YXAeE