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Old 11 Jul 2023, 02:50 (Ref:4167846)   #1
Willmaz223
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Willmaz223 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridWillmaz223 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
HSCC Brands Hatch Superprix

Entry List-

https://hscc.org.uk/wp-content/uploa...-Superprix.pdf

Fantastic HF3 and HFJ efforts. Though sadly another of those meetings that's declined somewhat as I rummaged through the programmes of this event from the past decade. Partly due to the HSCC being significantly affected with lower grids this year.


Will be along on Saturday as its a lovely relaxed event nonetheless.
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Old 11 Jul 2023, 07:12 (Ref:4167852)   #2
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justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks Will, planning to be there Sat/Sun.
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Old 14 Jul 2023, 10:34 (Ref:4168357)   #3
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justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A good spread of lovely open wheel racers across the board along with some eclectic modsport machinery in with the road sports and a few gt's as well. What's not to like?The weather looks a bit iffy and yes it's not quite the meeting that it was a few years back but one of the best of the year at Brands for me.
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Old 14 Jul 2023, 15:37 (Ref:4168383)   #4
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Planning to be there both days - always a good weekend. HF2 is a bit thin but they will still sound glorious. Just hope we don’t all get blown away by the wind tomorrow afternoon. Sunday looks good though
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Old 14 Jul 2023, 16:16 (Ref:4168390)   #5
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Old 16 Jul 2023, 16:34 (Ref:4168626)   #6
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Wasn't much of a 'race' meeting with most races, over half having stoppages or lengthy safety cars, the races not being interrupted being small grids.

Formula Ford 2000 for example having 10 mins of racing out of a possible 40. Formula Junior had at most 3 or 4 laps for there weekend. I know its inevitable at times but the safety car just kills races along with some questionable driving.
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Old 16 Jul 2023, 18:39 (Ref:4168643)   #7
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Wasn't much of a 'race' meeting with most races, over half having stoppages or lengthy safety cars, the races not being interrupted being small grids.

Formula Ford 2000 for example having 10 mins of racing out of a possible 40. Formula Junior had at most 3 or 4 laps for there weekend. I know its inevitable at times but the safety car just kills races along with some questionable driving.
My feelings too. I went on Saturday but, even though I had a ticket, I could not be bothered to spend the time & petrol to go today. Perhaps it should be renamed the Brands Hatch Safety-Car-Prix ?
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Old 16 Jul 2023, 20:03 (Ref:4168680)   #8
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I thought it all rather flat - it used to be a favourite weekend but has lost a lot of its appeal. HSCC has become heavy on grids of small single seaters which are all very similar. Only Historic FF regularly entertain. They used to have GTSCC with them which would provide some relief from yet another single seater race. The Great days of HF2 seem to be gone -only 10 cars in the second race

As stated above nearly every race was affected by the dreaded safety car as is normal at HSCC events. . It’s bad enough for those of us who just look on. What must it feel like to someone who has spent a large amount of money and time to get a car on the grid and then spend most of the race in a slow parade. It must be a reason why people give in or move to clubs who don’t seem so badly affected.

There must be a better way of keeping people safe. Double waved yellows used to do the job but they used to be strictly obeyed
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Old 16 Jul 2023, 20:31 (Ref:4168689)   #9
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I thought it all rather flat - it used to be a favourite weekend but has lost a lot of its appeal. HSCC has become heavy on grids of small single seaters which are all very similar. Only Historic FF regularly entertain. They used to have GTSCC with them which would provide some relief from yet another single seater race. The Great days of HF2 seem to be gone -only 10 cars in the second race

As stated above nearly every race was affected by the dreaded safety car as is normal at HSCC events. . It’s bad enough for those of us who just look on. What must it feel like to someone who has spent a large amount of money and time to get a car on the grid and then spend most of the race in a slow parade. It must be a reason why people give in or move to clubs who don’t seem so badly affected.

There must be a better way of keeping people safe. Double waved yellows used to do the job but they used to be strictly obeyed
Pretty much agree with all of that having attended both Sat and Sun particularly the dreaded safety car interventions which were tedious to say the least. On a technical note, I was just wondering if airbox scoops are permitted in FF2000? It appeared that Jordan Harrison's car was much quicker in the final race and I noticed the orange coloured airbox on his car, just enquiring? The GTSCC series were a welcome addition but for me the major loss at this previous great meeting has been the reduction of Thundersports entrants how much of this is down to Covid I'm not sure but we have seen many overseas entries in past years including many 70's 2 litre sports cars.

Last edited by justracing; 16 Jul 2023 at 20:55.
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 07:08 (Ref:4168716)   #10
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Regarding Jordan's airbox - we allow them on cars of an age to have run them in period. Iain's got one on his Penfold FF2000. Later cars are not allowed to run them.
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 07:53 (Ref:4168720)   #11
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Thanks Alan.
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 09:29 (Ref:4168725)   #12
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As stated above nearly every race was affected by the dreaded safety car as is normal at HSCC events. . It’s bad enough for those of us who just look on. What must it feel like to someone who has spent a large amount of money and time to get a car on the grid and then spend most of the race in a slow parade. It must be a reason why people give in or move to clubs who don’t seem so badly affected.

There must be a better way of keeping people safe. Double waved yellows used to do the job but they used to be strictly obeyed
I wasn't at Brands so you might wish to take this with a pinch of salt. However, two thoughts spring to mind: the first is that MSV do not allow live snatches at their circuits for single-seaters. Therefore, if a car goes off and needs moving, it will be done under the safety car or red flag. The number of single-seater races increases this likelihood.

Secondly, marshal numbers are at the moment, in my experience, incredibly low. This means that if intervention is required, the only safe way to do so is under the safety car as there just isn't the number of people to do otherwise.
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 09:58 (Ref:4168733)   #13
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I felt for the drivers in the historic FF2000 race late yesterday, I don't think they got more than 3 laps and not one full race lap with two red flags before it was abandoned. It was good to meet up with Mr Rowley, Gordon and another tenther, sorry i didn't get your name but there is a photo out there to prove it.
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 10:09 (Ref:4168735)   #14
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Secondly, marshal numbers are at the moment, in my experience, incredibly low. This means that if intervention is required, the only safe way to do so is under the safety car as there just isn't the number of people to do otherwise.[/QUOTE]

As a Clerk, safety in general, particularly Marshals & Drivers has to be a major consideration when making a decision.
Code 60 anyone?
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 10:42 (Ref:4168743)   #15
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I felt for the drivers in the historic FF2000 race late yesterday, I don't think they got more than 3 laps and not one full race lap with two red flags before it was abandoned. It was good to meet up with Mr Rowley, Gordon and another tenther, sorry i didn't get your name but there is a photo out there to prove it.
It was me...

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Old 17 Jul 2023, 12:18 (Ref:4168747)   #16
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We did parade Sunday lunch time and there sure did look to be a shortage of Marshall’s . Having marshalled myself back in the early 70’s and always through the years of racing at Brands I have always found the marshalling excellent and there are done familiar faces that always turn up . I enjoyed the weekend very much . Only got four racing laps Friday before getting collected by spinning car but those few laps in the Comet JAP 500 we’re just the most fun . Happy days
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 12:24 (Ref:4168748)   #17
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Name:	Gordon, Tim, Me Delta nad Alan Morgan. Brands 2023..jpeg
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ID:	77595 Good to catch up with Tim and Gordon. Shame HRTR5 was not around for the group photo. We had a great days racing with him on Sunday in his Elva MK5. I am sure he will post something on here later.
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 12:29 (Ref:4168754)   #18
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On Saturday the delay was mostly due to a red-flag in the F.Ford race and the bizarre decision to restart it over the full distance despite them having already run three laps and effectively costing the timetable some 20 minutes) and so the Junior’s race was cut to 18 minutes from the bought & paid for 25 and the FF2000 suffered too.

HSCC say they have to cram in the maximum number of races to keep entry fees down but is this what drivers want?? There are costs, not to mention time, that are incurred in just turning up and a small increase in entry fee in return for a better chance at getting the scheduled race time might be popular.
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Old 17 Jul 2023, 12:47 (Ref:4168757)   #19
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I wasn't at Brands so you might wish to take this with a pinch of salt. However, two thoughts spring to mind: the first is that MSV do not allow live snatches at their circuits for single-seaters. Therefore, if a car goes off and needs moving, it will be done under the safety car or red flag. The number of single-seater races increases this likelihood.

Secondly, marshal numbers are at the moment, in my experience, incredibly low. This means that if intervention is required, the only safe way to do so is under the safety car as there just isn't the number of people to do otherwise.
Thanks. That’s two factors I had not considered
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Old 18 Jul 2023, 07:40 (Ref:4168859)   #20
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Could be that marshal numbers are low because we are not allowed to marshal any more, we have to wait for the safety car and the circuit to be sanitized.
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Old 18 Jul 2023, 10:57 (Ref:4168876)   #21
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Could be that marshal numbers are low because we are not allowed to marshal any more, we have to wait for the safety car and the circuit to be sanitized.
Hear, hear, couldn't agree more Sketch.
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Old 18 Jul 2023, 12:28 (Ref:4168886)   #22
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The fact that this meeting is up against an ever expanding FoS which I presume needs more and more marshals, can’t help, can it?
But ultimately, surely, the marshals must want to come to a meeting that is enjoyable and exciting to be a part of? What was served up for their entertainment this weekend at Brands was as poor as I can remember. Too few cars, in too many truncated or safety car-ed races.
It didn’t use to be like this…..19 years ago our cars finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the Derek Bell race at the Superprix, it was wet but drying, 24 starters, no one fell off, there was no safety car and the race ran to it’s full length. Have standards really fallen this far?
The gravel traps at Brands really don’t help, pretty much any misdemeanour now results in a safety car or red flag, but the clubs seem uninterested or unwilling to do anything to help mitigate these issues.
At least one of my customers has told me since the weekend that it is unlikely that he would return to Brands under these same conditions.
Something has to change, and quickly, if not the future looks seriously bleak.
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Old 18 Jul 2023, 13:05 (Ref:4168891)   #23
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Wise words.

Personally I think part of the trouble is Mr Palmer. Silverstone still do live single seater snatches why don't MSVR?.

As to the current shortage of Marshals, I think there are several issues.
Covid didn't help, people found time for other hobbies, and enjoyed weekends relaxing.
Cost, fuel is still obscenely expensive and at a guess I'd say most Marshals travel an hour each way to an event.
What's on the track, grids sizes are shrinking and certainly on the historic scene there are far to many events chasing the same cars. every circuit now has a 'classic meeting' of some sort.
Age, the average age of Marshals is much nearer 60 than 30, ok we've grown out of the parenthood era, but the next generation are not following on behind us. In my experience they think the days are to long and the rewards negligible.
I don't know what the going rate on the mainland is, but here in Ireland, Marshals get a free breakfast and that's it for car races & £40 a day for a Kart meeting.
Marshalling itself, it used to be a White badge for a Trainee, Green for track, Blue for Flag etc, etc.
Now it's Grade 1, Grade 2 etc, what's that all about?

Last edited by The Fat Clerk; 18 Jul 2023 at 13:25.
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Old 18 Jul 2023, 13:32 (Ref:4168900)   #24
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Wise words.
Personally I think part of the trouble is Mr Palmer.
Silverstone still do live single seater snatches.

Concerning Dr Palmer, that may be the case but I don't know him so cannot comment. What is commonly known is, though, that he does like to keep his circuits nicely manicured!

However, I do believe that he now have a very different breed of drivers to that of years gone by, all or most with an almost win at all cost rather than the attitude that the majority of drivers back in the day at clubbie type meetings who were there because they enjoyed racing almost regardless of where they finished across the line.

As a consequence, the current breed on the whole are incapable of "policing" themselves, driving without due care and attention and too fast at the scenes of incidents, i. e. basically ignoring flags.

I personally think that this is a poor indictment of younger drivers nowadays.
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Old 18 Jul 2023, 13:34 (Ref:4168901)   #25
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As a consequence, the current breed on the whole are incapable of "policing" themselves, driving without due care and attention and too fast at the scenes of incidents, i. e. basically ignoring flags.

I personally think that this is a poor indictment of younger drivers nowadays.
And possibly those of us dealing with the offenders?
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