What can be done to improve the WEC ?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Articus

Also considering that there have been a few Finnish F1 and WRC drivers they certainly know that kind of motorposrt more than Indy 500.

If Kimi did a 1 off at the Indy 500 all of Finland would know.

No they wouldn't because Finns don't care if it isn't about F1 or WRC, or MotoGP on smaller scale. Well okay one-off like that would get some column inches in trash magazines, a 2 minute clip on sports news and raise up some nerdy comments on internet forums just like the Nascar gig did but that's it, after that everybody forgets the whole thing

I think most of the non-infant, non-senile Europeans know about the Monaco GP, as well as Le Mans (by name) but Indy doesn't say anything

[Articus]

^ It must be a dream to live in a place where you say motorsport and people dont think NASCAR.

[Purist]

JHamilton, you're REALLY oversimplifying here, to your detriment.

1. The AsLMS is NOT going to have the sort of grids that the ALMS has, so it is FAR less likely that a combined event would hit the track maximum in those cases.

2. Neither Philip Island nor Fuji have an extreme, extended choke point, like "the Esses" at Road Atlanta.

3. Road Atlanta is 2.540 miles, while Philip Island is 2.765 miles, and Fuji (F1 layout) is 2.835 miles. That extra length does make a difference in terms of traffic density.

4. Apart from the length, Philip Island and Fuji have something else that WILL correspond to their maximum field sizes being larger than the 53-car limit at Road Atlanta: track width. I'm pretty darn sure Philip Island is a minimum of 12m wide the whole way around. Fuji, having been redone for F1, is no less than 15m wide at any point around the lap, and the pit straight is a bare minimum of 18m wide, while at some places, it may be as much as 25m wide. Road Atlanta, on the other hand, is NOT so spacious. The last few turns, the pit straight, and the first turn or two may have been widened a bit (to 40ft/12m) in the 1998 updates; however, from Turn 3 around to the end of the back stretch, I'm fairly certain the track remains at the old width: 30ft or so (roughly 9 meters). That makes a HUGE difference in how much racing surface you have to work with.

(One component in calculating a track's maximum field size is a variable with a set of possible assigned values that is applied to an equation. The value is based upon how narrow the narrowest part of the track is. So, Fuji would use the value corresponding to 15m, Philip Island the value for 12m, and Road Atlanta the value for 9m. Not surprisingly, the values increase with greater width, allowing for a larger field size, all other variables being the same.)

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Purist

JHamilton, you're REALLY oversimplifying here, to your detriment.

1. The AsLMS is NOT going to have the sort of grids that the ALMS has, so it is FAR less likely that a combined event would hit the track maximum in those cases.

2. Neither Philip Island nor Fuji have an extreme, extended choke point, like "the Esses" at Road Atlanta.

3. Road Atlanta is 2.540 miles, while Philip Island is 2.765 miles, and Fuji (F1 layout) is 2.835 miles. That extra length does make a difference in terms of traffic density.

4. Apart from the length, Philip Island and Fuji have something else that WILL correspond to their maximum field sizes being larger than the 53-car limit at Road Atlanta: track width. I'm pretty darn sure Philip Island is a minimum of 12m wide the whole way around. Fuji, having been redone for F1, is no less than 15m wide at any point around the lap, and the pit straight is a bare minimum of 18m wide, while at some places, it may be as much as 25m wide. Road Atlanta, on the other hand, is NOT so spacious. The last few turns, the pit straight, and the first turn or two may have been widened a bit (to 40ft/12m) in the 1998 updates; however, from Turn 3 around to the end of the back stretch, I'm fairly certain the track remains at the old width: 30ft or so (roughly 9 meters). That makes a HUGE difference in how much racing surface you have to work with.

(One component in calculating a track's maximum field size is a variable with a set of possible assigned values that is applied to an equation. The value is based upon how narrow the narrowest part of the track is. So, Fuji would use the value corresponding to 15m, Philip Island the value for 12m, and Road Atlanta the value for 9m. Not surprisingly, the values increase with greater width, allowing for a larger field size, all other variables being the same.)

[IDEALIST LENS]But if the ACO/FIA did the right thing and the WEC were only an LMP1 championship that went to the strongest events on the combined ACO calendar, then field size at Petit likely wouldn't be a problem.[/IDEALIST LENS]

Chris

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Chiana

What year is this, 1926?

Also, nowadays winning the WRC title is about as celebrated as Charlie Sheen's late career

Originally Posted by Chiana

I bet no-one but maybe 100 people in Finland know what Indy 500 is. Multiply that number by 1,000 for Le Mans (if I'm being optimistic). x50,000 for Monaco GP

Obviously these numbers vary from country to country but it's arguably not even the biggest / most watched motorsport event in US

Pfft! Mate, broaden your knowledge of motorsport, then come back to me. No one in Australia would know what is a 1000 Lakes Rally. It's not diminished because of that. It's still a premium rally. even with a different name.

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

This simply hasn't been true for well over a decade.. maybe since the Champcar split.

I agree the race has been diminished. But you've got to make the distinction between current "Indycar" racing and the "Indy 500", you've got to separate the two. The Indy 500 has been going 100 years. It's also, in effect, the same race now, as when it was 100 years ago.


Compare that to the first ever GP, 1906 French. That race would be barely recognisable to a current GP. Back then, that race was more like a cannonball run. As a result, the race loses sentimental value. If you get what I'm saying? When the 500 has also got 15-20 years longer history that Monaco and Le Mans, it's without a doubt, the single biggest car race in all of motorsport. It's just going through a trough atm.

Originally Posted by Purist

Except, without a championship (whether ELMS, ALMS, or WEC), would those other races even be held at all? I'm pretty sure many of them would simply cease to exist without that strand tying them together.

You have a point with the lesser races. But with Sliverstone, Spa and Monza, they're not big enough on their own? They don't have to be equal to Le Mans and Sebring, but they're still pretty good, aren't they?

[kober]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

]When the 500 has also got 15-20 years longer history that Monaco and Le Mans, it's without a doubt, the single biggest car race in all of motorsport (atm). It's just going through a trough atm.

Seriously? It's the greatest race of them all because it has been run on the same track for one hundred years? That doesn't make it the greatest, but rather "the oldest race that runs on the original circuit".

Originally Posted by Chiana

I bet no-one but maybe 100 people in Finland know what Indy 500 is. Multiply that number by 1,000 for Le Mans (if I'm being optimistic). x50,000 for Monaco GP

Similar proportion applies to majority of Europe. Maybe in UK Indy is slightly more popular, but on the other side of the Channel when you say "Indy" people add "Jones", not "500", in their mind.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by kober

Seriously? It's the greatest race of them all because it has been run on the same track for one hundred years? That doesn't make it the greatest, but rather "the oldest race that runs on the original circuit".

I would also say 500 miles on the one of the fastest circuits also contributes. But, since you know better, why didn't you offer a alternative? I suspect you wouldn't know. So, what is the single biggest car race?*







*Waiting for the response "Monaco."

[trickyd]

I don't know how this debate has started in this thread, but sod it, I'm easily led so I'll join in. I don't think that the Indy 500 is "the biggest race in the world". For the same reason that I don't think that the Super bowl is "the biggest sporting event in the world". Essentially that reason is because they are the highlight of a national championship, not a global one. It is a claim Americans seem to like to make about things, and is usually based on statements such as "this is being televised in 350 countries across the globe" regardless if anyone is actually watching in those countries, still less if they care about the result or understand the rules! Also, it is a curiously American thing to have one event pumped up above the level of the rest of the series. In F1 Monaco is nice but it’s the Championship that counts, there's only really Le Mans that compares as a stand alone event. I'd say Monaco wins though in terms of global fame, current relevance and numbers watching on TV's everywhere. Daytona loses out as it is only relevant to Americans wearing big green John Deere caps, a 'DeWalt' T-shirt, a red chequered shirt and ripped up jeans.*

*Joke*

[trickyd]

To get back on topic. A sure fire way of improving the 'WEC' would be for someone at the ACO or FIA to get on the blower to Luca di Montezemolo and beg him to let whatever used to be Ferrari's test team to use the overflow from their budget since caps were introduced in F1 to build a prototype. A sure fire crowd puller. Plus, if Ferrari came back a race in Italy would have to come back, whch would never be a bad thing. Surely Luca owes Jean Todt a favour or two for all his hard work, its the least he could do.

A decent alternative would be for Luca to say "hmm, no, Ferrari's place is in F1, but we'll build one anyway and slap a Maserati badge on it instead".

[Mt. Lynx]

According to a survey done by National Geographic, the 24 hrs of Le Mans is not only the biggest and most important motorsports event of the year, but the biggest and most important sports event of all time.

Maserati? Why not Alfa Romeo?

[trickyd]

Originally Posted by Mt. Lynx

According to a survey done by National Geographic, the 24 hrs of Le Mans is not only the biggest and most important motorsports event of the year, but the biggest and most important sports event of all time.

Maserati? Why not Alfa Romeo?

Well, either would do me to be honest, I just thought Alfa were more of a Touring Car 'brand', apart from the 8c.

[Mt. Lynx]

Personally, I would love to see a P1 with an Alfa badge on it.

[Tim the Grey]

Originally Posted by kober

Seriously? It's the greatest race of them all because it has been run on the same track for one hundred years? That doesn't make it the greatest, but rather "the oldest race that runs on the original circuit".
Similar proportion applies to majority of Europe. Maybe in UK Indy is slightly more popular, but on the other side of the Channel when you say "Indy" people add "Jones", not "500", in their mind.

Ahem. Indianapolis is NOT the oldest continuously used venue.
Shelsley Walsh, in Worcestershire has been a speed event host for 109 years now...

And LM is, IMHO, better known GLOBALLY than Indy. Largely because of the recent fortunes of both.

[Tim the Grey]

I'd take ANYTHING right now that can RACE an Audi.
Steamrollers are boring.

(Apart from REAL Steam Rollers, which are great things....)

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by canam

That would suggest that roughly 5 million people in Finland know what the Monaco GP is.

Given that Finland has a population of just slightly over 5 million, they must watch F1 at a very young age!

Best known race on the planet...is....Grand Theft Auto.

and then the Indy 500!

Same in Spain, the last F1 Gp was watched by 4,4 million of spaniards (40% share at 2-3 PM) and as Marc Gené often comments about it, lots of people knows about Le Mans here only from f1 tv broadcast, we are very lucky here that an incredible driver an engineer like Marc does full time comments on F1 GP TV broadcast during the 3 hours.

[kober]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

I would also say 500 miles on the one of the fastest circuits also contributes. But, since you know better, why didn't you offer a alternative? I suspect you wouldn't know. So, what is the single biggest car race?

Twenty years ago, yes, I'd say Monaco GP, but nowadays it's more and more just one of the races in the season, and not as cherished any more.
But today, I'd say that the greatest is LM24. Of course it depends on the point of view, but I dare to say that LM24 win is worth to a non-North-American exactly the same as Indy 500 win to a North-American.

[Gingers4Justice]

Le Mans is much more heard of than the Indy 500, for sure. Just talking about it to your average fella or fellaress in England - I'd say 1 in 4 have heard of Le Mans, 1 in 5 or maybe 1 in 6 of Indy. None of my friends have heard on Indycars.

Le Mans is something everyone has heard of - yet so few know what it entails.

It is truely staggering, I find, that the ACO has something like Le Mans, a brand that is so well-known, and yet it still fails to sell itself properly.

The ACO needs much more help in promoting the WEC, because it doesn't do a good enough job in the blue-riband event. You need good highlights packages, promotions, you need to get the word out there about what the WEC is all about.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

The Indy Five Hunnert is definitely the biggest race in the world, Southern Indiana that is, although the good'ol Hoosier 100 and Crown Royal presents the Your Name Here 400 at the Brickyard powered by BigMachinerecords.com comes close.

Back on topic, I agree with G4J, the ACO needs to promote LM24 and give the event the attention it deserves. I can ask anyone what they think of when they hear 'Le Mans' and they'll say "a car race in France" but after that they have no clue. NatGeo rated it the greatest SPORTING event in the world, I think they went too far, but it just shows the potential the race could have on the global stage if marketed correctly.

[Purist]

FF1Champ, I think you'll find at least a partial answer to your query in my latest posts in the "ALMS 2012 Discussion" thread.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

The Indy Five Hunnert is definitely the biggest race in the world, Southern Indiana that is, although the good'ol Hoosier 100 and Crown Royal presents the Your Name Here 400 at the Brickyard powered by BigMachinerecords.com comes close.

Back on topic, I agree with G4J, the ACO needs to promote LM24 and give the event the attention it deserves. I can ask anyone what they think of when they hear 'Le Mans' and they'll say "a car race in France" but after that they have no clue. NatGeo rated it the greatest SPORTING event in the world, I think they went too far, but it just shows the potential the race could have on the global stage if marketed correctly.

Indeed. And on the Nat Geo claim, I think they are referring to what the event is at the circuit. Fence side, and in the town of Le Mans the race has an incredible atmosphere. The race effectively occupies an entire region of France for the first half of June. As an event it is unmatched in its "coolness", and its appeal to fans, the atmosphere the race has, the "shared experience" thing that Hindy always talks about. And I am proud to subscribe to that theory.

However, it is not the biggest sporting event in the world. There are events with larger attendances, considerably larger international appeal, more sponsorship, and better media permeation globally. And I don't think Nat Geo was speaking to the race in terms of its international popularity. Le Mans has a dedicated niche following, albeit a typically well-to-do, worldwide following that is very radical in their support of it.

Chris

[ArnageWRC]

I think like most non-F1 Motorsport, it has become a ‘niche’ event, and that’s not to devalue the event, just a case of realism. This year there was no clash with F1, yet the mainstream coverage didn’t improve. The days of BBC 5Live having hourly updates are over. Similarly, the newspaper coverage was nothing to write home about. If it hadn’t been for ‘former F1 driver’ Anthony Davidson’s accident, would it have got half the coverage it did? I do wonder whether the ACO realise, or even care what everybody thinks – 200,000+ still turn up. But having seen Eurosport’s TV figures for last year they were a little depressing.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Le Mans is much more heard of than the Indy 500, for sure. Just talking about it to your average fella or fellaress in England - I'd say 1 in 4 have heard of Le Mans, 1 in 5 or maybe 1 in 6 of Indy. None of my friends have heard on Indycars.

Le Mans is something everyone has heard of - yet so few know what it entails.

See where I am from that couldn't be further from the truth. No one has a clue what Le Mans is or what it entails. Outside of hardcore sportscar fans in America. When you say motorsport they laugh and say you watch Nascar...That is there only concept of Motorsport. You could even ask the guys at ABC or Fox news and they probably have no idea what Le Mans is.

In Europe having gone there the average Joe has a good idea of what you are watching when he shows up in the hotel lounge.

Here evern Nascar viewership is dying. ALMS and Le Mans is such a niche in America.

In the same way Americans have a understanding that Nascar exist. Germans are aware of DTM, Europeans of Le Mans and N24 probably.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Purist

FF1Champ, I think you'll find at least a partial answer to your query in my latest posts in the "ALMS 2012 Discussion" thread.

No, it pretty much answered it fully.

Originally Posted by kober

Twenty years ago, yes, I'd say Monaco GP, but nowadays it's more and more just one of the races in the season, and not as cherished any more.

But today, I'd say that the greatest is LM24. Of course it depends on the point of view, but I dare to say that LM24 win is worth to a non-North-American exactly the same as Indy 500 win to a North-American.

Monaco is not cherished anymore, but Le Mans is? Mainstrean cultural relevance to the opposite side of the Atlantic, or anywhere, is not important. As a hardened motorsport fan from Australia, overall, the Indy 500 has the edge over Le Mans. Also, while people may not appreciate Americans FIGJAM attitude. UK/Europeans have to understand one thing, "you" come across as motorsport snobs. But I'll save that for another thread.

[formerf1champ]

"Snob" may be too harsh. But definitely, there's a haughty nature "It's European, so it's better" nature. If you were wondering what FIGJAM means **** I'm Good. Just Ask Me.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

In reality, going by the same standards that ranks any other type of world sporting events the "BIGGEST RACE IN THE WORLD" is whatever Formula 1 race gets the highest television ratings. Which is typically Canada because of TV times in addition to 300,000 attending over the weekend.

Canada wins again.