Opel to withdraw from DTM

[BSchneiderFan]

Opel will withdraw from the DTM at the end of next year, according to autosport.com. This is bad, if not entirely unexpected, news. The DTM has to find another manufacturer: I don't think Audi and Mercedes will fight each other. Maybe BMW might be tempted in? After all the M3 GTR isn't far off a DTM car already.

[Kicking-back]

The timing of the announcement - well in advance - gives time to find an alternative manufacturer.

Aussie V8s do alright with two marques though

[BSchneiderFan]

Trying to think who a new manufacturer might be. BMW, Alfa and SEAT are all committed to the WTCC, Ford have expressed an interest in the WTCC but are pretty cash-strapped anyway. Volvo don't have a V8.

There was a rumour a couple of years back that Porsche might join the DTM. But that thought leads me on to another one. If this 'German GT series' which has been obliquely discussed comes together, might the DTM disappear? Mercedes has demonstrated the ability to switch series before, and Audi could always go off and busy itself with its new prototype.

[mark_l]

Well that's the end of the DTM.

This is what a manufacturer based F1 series would be like, if your not winning on Sunday you wont be selling on Monday.

The bean counters don't like that.

[gttouring]

volvo does have a V8
new this year a 4.4 litre DOHC V8 mill to debut in the XC90 V8...
however Opel is pulling out but GM is running the new WTCC touring car effort to increase Chevrolet branding in Europe- perhaps the Opel will lose out to have Chevrolet enter in?
but it would be good to see BMW tear it up with Merc and Audi- too bad Porsche car styles don't fit rear engine flat 6 and all- unless they race a Cayenne ()
but hope springs as a V8 passat can come race yes or no?
audi wouldn't like the sibling rivalry

[JMeissner]

I don't think BMW would enter the DTM while competing in the WTCC.

[gwyllion]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
Opel will withdraw from the DTM at the end of next year, according to autosport.com. This is bad, if not entirely unexpected, news.

Unexpected? Last week some newspapers reported that GM planned to fire 10000 employees. It could be expected that GM would evaluate their motorsport program (comparable to Ford). The results of Opel in DTM were rather bad as well. Firing people and continuing to spend money on motorsport can not combined; see Jaguar.

Now GM announces that 12000 people will loose their job by 2006 (most of them in 2005). 500 people (of the 6000 employees) at Saab get fired, the rest will happen in the German Opel factories.

It's a logical decision: making big losses and very bad results in DTM.

The DTM has to find another manufacturer: I don't think Audi and Mercedes will fight each other. Maybe BMW might be tempted in? After all the M3 GTR isn't far off a DTM car already.

I tought another manufacturer already had plans to enter DTM in 2006. Toyota or Alfa?.

[gwyllion]

I don't understand the discussion about the V8 engines. Only Mercedes is using a own (specially designed) engine; Opel uses a Oldsmobile V8 and Audi a Mugen V8

A DTM car is just tube frame with carbon fibre bodywork which looks like 4-door sedan. So all brands selling 4-door sedans can enter (Toyota Avensis, Alfa 156, BMW 3, ...)

[gwyllion]

Autosport.nl reports that Mercedes is also considering pulling out of DTM In contrary to Audi and Opel, Mercedes is not relying on external sponsorship, making things even more expensive then their opponents.

So if no new manufacturer arrives, this will mean the end of DTM :confused:

[BSchneiderFan]

Errr, if you re-read my post, you'll see that I said Opel's withdrawal wasn't unexpected.

Audi use a Mugen V8? This is news to me.

I'd forgotten about Toyota. A Lexus IS could work well, but Toyota seem fixated on F1 at the moment.

[flor]

Originally posted by gwyllion
Autosport.nl reports that Mercedes is also considering pulling out of DTM :

this seems as likely as ferrari pulling out of f1

[gwyllion]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
Errr, if you re-read my post, you'll see that I said Opel's withdrawal wasn't unexpected.

Damn, double negation My mistake.

Audi use a Mugen V8? This is news to me.

Read an old thread started by FIRE: Which engine is used in the Abt-Audi TT-R?

I'd forgotten about Toyota. A Lexus IS could work well, but Toyota seem fixated on F1 at the moment.

Mercedes is in F1 and DTM as well.

[BSchneiderFan]

Take my hat off to you, hadn't realised the Abt TT-Rs were powered by Neil Brown-fettled Mugens. Are these still used in the A4, then? And why doesn't Audi use its own V8s, maybe prepared by Cosworth Technology, which VAG owns?

As for Merc running in F1 and the DTM, that's perfectly true, but different companies have different approaches. For a start, Toyota is running an in-house F1 team, while Mercedes isn't (well, not quite). Also, Toyota still has a great deal to prove in F1, unlike Merc, so is more likely to want no distraction. That, after all, is why they canned the Le Mans and WRC programmes.

[SPARK Msport]

Not suprising, has/always been rumoured...

I do hope the DTM finds another manufacture, Alfa, Toyota/Lexus would be good choice's but with so many of the manufactures racing nowadays and championships such as F1, WRC being very expensive I cannot really see a manufacture replacing Opel. But then there is 12 months and as in motorsport alot can happen in that period of time!

[gwyllion]

Originally posted by gwyllion
Autosport.nl reports that Mercedes is also considering pulling out of DTM

This article was removed from their website?! Maybe it was just some fantasy of the author (he only quoted a guy from Mercedes Netherlands, and not statement from Mercedes Germany).

[Rich R]

couldn't merc and audi have fixed it so opel could have won at hockenheim in the last round this year, at least it might have kept their board interested in the dtm.

but seriously, i hope the new dtm doesn't go the same way as the old one, we need a few race series for powerful cars in europe.

[gwyllion]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
Take my hat off to you, hadn't realised the Abt TT-Rs were powered by Neil Brown-fettled Mugens. Are these still used in the A4, then?

Yes, but Audi engineers managed to squize a bit more power out of it.

And why doesn't Audi use its own V8s, maybe prepared by Cosworth Technology, which VAG owns?

Good question. They have a 4.2 V8 (and for the new RS4 they are developing a high reving version). I guess when Abt started in DTM, they chose this engine because of convenience and cost reasons (developing a race version of the Audi V8 with a reduced displacement would be more expensive than just using an existing engine). And Abt was competitive with it (winning DTM in 2002), althought they were (and still are) a bit underpowered (resulting in lower top speed).

I guess when Audi toke over this year, they realised that developing an own engine would be very expensive and not be much more powerfull. They developed the A4 for corner speed and not that much for straight line speed.

[FIRE]

Originally posted by gwyllion
So all brands selling 4-door sedans can enter (Toyota Avensis, Alfa 156, BMW 3, ...)

There were rumours about Toyota and also about Alfa Romeo, see these articles from German magazine Auto Motor und Sport:

25 November 2003 - Alfa kommt zurück - Schumi schiebt mit
Mit dem Nachfolgemodell des aktuellen Alfa 156 wollen die Italiener mit Hilfe von Ferrari und Unterstützung von Michael Schumacher und Willi Weber ab 2005 wieder in der größten deutschen Tourenwagen-Rennserie mitmischen.
Für die Technik - Motor und Chassis - wird Ferrari verantwortlich zeichnen. Eine der Triebfedern hinter dem Projekt ist Michael Schumacher. Geplant ist der Einsatz von zunächst vier Fahrzeugen mit dem Nachfolgemodell des Alfa Romeo 156, der in zwei Jahren auf den Markt kommt. Alfa ist in der DTM ein alter Bekannter. Von 1993 bis 1996 traten die roten Renner mit einem allradgetriebenen Alfa 155 an. 1993 eroberte Nicola Larini für Alfa den Meistertitel.

Nach diversen Werbungsversuchen der DTM-Dachorganisation ITR in der Vergangenheit kommt die Initiative diesmal aus Italien. Alfa-Markenchef Daniele Bandiera prüft derzeit diverse Technik- und Budgetkonzepte. Er wird von Alfa Romeo-Deutschland-Chef Marc Pasture und Marketingleiter Dino Damiano unterstützt. Als Fahrer sind Gabriele Tarquini, Nicola Larini und Timo Scheider im Gespräch. Opel-Fahrer Scheider könnte bereits 2004 bei Alfa in der Tourenwagen-Europameisterschaft oder mit einem Ferrari in der GT-Meisterschaft fahren. Michael Schumacher protegiert Sebastian Stahl, den Sohn der Freundin seines Vaters. Schumacher-Manager Willi Weber will ein eigenes Team einsetzen.

Source: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/49130

And this:

23 January 2004 - DTM: Ferrari-Motorenchef wechselt zu Alfa
Der Motorenchef des Ferrari-Formel 1-Teams Pino d' Agostino wechselt von der Scuderia zu Alfa Romeo. Dort soll der Italiener die Entwicklung eines Vierliter-V8-Motors für das Alfa DTM-Comeback 2005 leiten.
Seit 1997 war der Mann mit der Schiebermütze hinter Paolo Martinelli stellvertretender Chef von Ferraris Motorenabteilung. D' Agostino arbeitete seit 1979 für Fiat und war geistiger Vater der Alfa-Rennmotoren, die zwischen 1985 und 1996 gebaut wurden. Bei den DTM-Alfa 155 V6, die zwischen 1993 und 1996 sehr erfolgreich in der DTM starteten, galt der V6-Motor als Pluspunkt im Paket.

Ab 2005 will Alfa mit dem Nachfolgemodell des 156 in der DTM antreten. Geplant ist der Einsatz von vier Autos. Michael Schumacher ist eine der Triebfedern hinter dem Projekt.

Source: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/51782

[JAG]

The 'new' DTM should always have been for more standard cars, similar to the ETCC/WTCC specs, but fitted with unrestricted 2.5l/3l V6's.

The DTM lost touch with its routes when it moved away from the old Group A formula to Class 1, IMO.

[flor]

unrestricted v6's are far too expensive, sadly

[JMeissner]

yep, unrestricted won't work. sooner or later the costs will go crazy.

[FIRE]

Despite I like DTM very much maybe it's better DTM collapses, and as a result Mercedes, Audi and Opel will move to WTCC.

[flor]

VAG has already Seat in it, GM has Chevy and Merc would probably prefer a GT over a S2000 car

[FIRE]

Originally posted by flor
VAG has already Seat in it, GM has Chevy and Merc would probably prefer a GT over a S2000 car

Probably you are right about Opel and Audi, but Citroen and Peugeot are also competing against each other in WRC. And I think there's little chance we see Mercedes.

[strider]

Originally posted by gwyllion
This article was removed from their website?! Maybe it was just some fantasy of the author (he only quoted a guy from Mercedes Netherlands, and not statement from Mercedes Germany).

Or maybe it was a demonstration of what corporate muscle can do...